Thanks @DocV, this is all very interesting to hear. I am glad to know that you had such a great response for a range of injuries. I think your post will be helpful to a lot of people. Again, thanks.
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Wow, this an interesting thread.
I may contribute a thing. I inspected a PEMF full body mat system. Doing some analysis I discovered that the Mat uses at 64 Hz base frequency using a basic sawtooth and bursts/packets of the 64 Hz signal followed by pauses. The frequency pattern of 64Hz signal bursts and pauses are varied over the day to resemble the brain frequencies.
The local applicators use a 30 KHz square signal in burst of some milliseconds followed by pauses and subsequent burst periods following a larger pause. Signals are unipolar and polarity is reversed all several minutes.
Using a Gaussmeter I could determine, that the T/s per pulse (both medium setting) seems to be lower than at the the M1 - and that from a 230V powered device.
The results of this product are mixed for me. Its good to relax (mat) but the applicators to not have the effect in regard of pain and suspected inflammation like the M1.
What I think to be an issue is the of 30 KHz for the “Spot” applicators. I think, this is not anymore a real PEMF “frequency”. May be that is the reason the effects are, for me, much less than from a M1 at Powerlevel 9 and B5-C5. Also the T/s per single 30 KHz pulse have to be estimated dramatically lower than on an ICES.
Does some here have an opinion about this?
I’d be curious what the waveform looked like coming off the coil at 30kHz. Do they reference an studies regarding why they use a higher frequency?
On an oscilloscope, measured inductively coupled, the signal still look quite “square”. The local applicators have quite large copper coils. There are no references to studies given that I am aware of. I have the plan to ask the manufacturer.
II think that they try do introduce other lower harmonics with a special pulse-train that pauses the 30 KHz in a specific pattern.
Still, I researched that 30 KHz is also used by Hulda Clarks “Zapper”, which I haven an ambivalent feeling with. Maybe that was what the initial developer of the frequencies had as “speculative” base. Also RIFE protocols use that frequency, but that is quite esoteric to me.
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I’m also a Chiropractic Physician and I use PEMF in my clinic. Particularly for bone injuries and to follow-up after ozone injections. I bought out the practice and it came with the PEMF unit which is from PEMF Systems, Inc.
We use it for a short period of time on patients and I’m wondering what the carry-over to your ICES-PEMF would be. As I look through how people are using it I see that it’s a long treatment time (like all night long).
So, would it not be beneficial to have my patients use it for 5-15 minutes? Am I missing the boat on what these different PEMF technologies are doing? I did have a vendor at a recent exhibit tell me that my unit is using 2 different poles and that his fancy digital unit was the only one that used parallel waves.
Just my opinion, but “2 poles”, “parallel waves”… 2 poles might mean bipolar pulses, in which case that is one key (patented) feature of ICES®-PEMF
Parallel waves… That is not a term generally used by scientists other than maybe in the description of laser coherence… maybe.
Would it be useful for your patients to wear 5-15 minutes?.. maybe, but that is not the best way to use ICES-PEMF, which is designed specifically for low-dose, longer session daily use. This is why ICES-PEMF systems are designed to be portable and wearable.
These were my thoughts. I appreciate the low and slow approach.
What would you say the minimal effective dose is?
Minimum effective dose: depends on a lot of things, maybe everything related to inflammation.
Individuals vary, and even different injuries on the same individual vary. So really, there is no one-size-fits-all rule of thumb that works for everyone.
In my opinion, for orthopedic injuries the best thing to do is:
Start with default settings: Omni-8 pulse pattern, Intensity = 9
Do this for a day or two, observe response, adjust, repeat.
Yes, that all makes sense. Thanks
I think ICES or PEMF in general make no sense in a fashion that uses them 15-30 minutes 1-2 times a week, where people come to a practice. Devices like BE**ER are marketed for that, I know therapeuts who do that because it it easy money, but I personally think that mobile units like ICES are the way to go. I do judge the therapeutic affect of full body mat devices not very high.
Maybe a “rental” model makes sense - where the patient gets an M1 for 4 weeks. Since the price of an M1 is friendly, and the device is sturdy this could be an option. The coils would be the only “fixed” item, that would stay with the patient after the usage.
Best,
Hans
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I generally agree with @hcf (Hans). I have discussed this with clinicians, and taken surveys on this type of question at scientific/clinical meetings:
https://www.josam.org/josam/article/view/69
Some clinicians have tried both weekly clinical short-session PEMF in addition to daily wearable PEMF. All of them see a good benefit for one or the other type of PEMF, but when combined, the clinical outcome seems to be better than either one alone. This is not a common practice, but it seems to be very advantageous according to those who have tried it.
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Yes, and in terms of making money, I’m a failure because I make it an included service. Yes, a rental model is what I have been considering.
Why would the coils need to stay with the patient instead of used by the next individual?
I would use new ones for hygienic reasons. You never know of the hygiene “details” of other people 
Best,
Hans
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Are emotions measurable? I sure can feel them in fact they can shut down my ability to think properly. What’s the science on emotions guys. If we are highly advanced electronic inventions. Wow, what a amazing time to be alive.
This is a hard question. Here is one example: we can not “measure” pain, but we can all easily feel it. This is why a doctor has to ask you to rate your pain on a scale of 1 to 10, because they can not measure it; you have to tell them what you feel. This is different from other things such as blood pressure, which can be measured but actually most people can not feel their blood pressure, which is why it is often called “the silent killer”. This is why no doctor will ever ask you to rate your blood pressure on a scale of 1 to 10. They will simply measure it.
So, it is a technical fact that the ability to feel something is entirely different from the ability to measure it.
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I have only been using PEMF for about 1 month but I have already benefited from it in many ways. I have a C5 and an A9, and really get great results from them (as described in my Splitting Wood and PEMF post). I also have a KT Recovery + Wave Pain Relief Device which I have been testing on my self and sometimes my pets. The KT Recovery + Wave reminds me of the Assisi Loop but much much more affordable. The description I found of how it works sounds very familiar (almost verbatim to the Assisi loop description) “KT Recovery+ Wave (KT Wave) is a non-prescription, wearable device that uses electromagnetic pulses to relieve pain. The pulses are called pulsed shortwave therapy (PSWT). KT Wave works by sending non-thermal, low-energy electromagnetic signals into joints, muscles, and tissue”. That phrase “pulsed shortwave therapy (PSWT)” is exactly what Assisi says about their device. The KT Wave gives 250 hours of functionality and then the battery is weak and you toss it and replace it. After my recent adventures in wood splitting, I slept with all the coils from my C5 on, which helped greatly, but I didn’t have enough coils to put some on my traps and they were very sore, so I stuck the remaining KT Wave I had (I gave the other one to my brother to try) on my right trap and went about my day. After about an hour I noticed it felt better so I switched it to the left trap and left it on all day. That side also felt better but still hurt a little at the end of the day. Still it did help. On a side note I had vented my frustration at my wife’s constitution not responding as quickly as I or my daughter’s in my post Attempt to Improve Hip Bursitis, but today finally had success with her, as she had been bothered by a sore rib for several days. I placed 2 coils side by side over the offending area and had her use Omni 8 for a few hours on an intensity of 9, after which she indicated the pain was gone. I am hoping to convince her to use the C5 for at least 4 hours every day for hopefully the next 3 months to see if she can get an overall improvement in her health. Time will tell.
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That’s terrific the variable of time (as suspected) made a difference for her. Glad the pain is gone! Thanks for sharing all your findings and experiments!
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The pain / discomfort in her rib comes back after after some time (≥ 6 hours), so she needs to stick with it (her biggest challenge) until it is fully resolved. I would guess daily (or nightly) use for at least 3-4 weeks would get her somewhere close and well on her way to resolution of that minor annoyance. I find that the more I use my A9 or C5 on my knee (several years ligament and meniscus injury) the better and stronger it feels.
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I think you are exactly correct.
Also, I think the way to view PEMF in general is that it allows normal healing.
But PEMF does not ‘force’ tissues to do anything, and it is not magic.
So it is essential to apply PEMF regularly enough to allow the normal tissue healing and recovery processes to occur, which takes time.
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@Bob Yes. I also need to study up more on supplementation, as without the right building blocks healing / progress is slowed. I have a good deal mor to learn about that, but there is so much info here in the Flux Health forum it is overwhelming lol.