Flux Health Forum

Post Stroke repair

Brain Injury and Neurodegenerative Diseases
#8

My only thought is that the researchers using TMS for post stroke repair were treating people who had strokes a long time ago, who were not ever expected to gain anymore function back.

They were measuring the new neuronal pathways, which were never expected to happen that long after a stroke.

I suspect that Bob was using something more like the Brain gauge and measuring function and skill improvement?

Just a thought.

Sigh. Some of us really do have significant brain problems and I have had such a tremendous improvement, but I am still so far off. It makes it challenging to interpret concepts.

The M-1 definitely helped me with sleep and with anxiety and depression and with transforming my mind about things like food. The results for those things were dramatic enough and the change in diet and starting to sleep after decades already affected my brain function. It is hard to speculate beyond that.

#9

I also ask mischievously, “Bob, are you sure it wasn’t part of why you recovered beyond anything people expect?” Because you have a recovery, which is so not normal.

Not saying it is. That just is my internal question.

I admire that you would just tell the truth about your experience, and I know that even if TMS is an exciting new technology for stroke, that doesn’t mean that it will work for everybody.

I am going to shut up now. Sorry again. Some of us are passionate about all of this. By necessity.

#10

It might be. But:
I do not want to give people false hope (too much of that on the Internet already)
I do not want to make false claims
I remain skeptical about any notion that PEMF fixes all things for all people
If it helped, I don’t really think it helped nearly as much as neuroplasticity exercise (the ones I discuss with Mercola and that I describe in my book on Amazon)

#11

Bob,

I genuinely appreciate that about you.

That is why I chose your device.

I am coming more from the people who had strokes years ago and who have zero hope of further improvement because they missed the plasticity window. That group online is the group which seems to communicate that they get better results if they use something like TENS or Direct Current or Electric Foot Massagers or TMS or LLLT and PEMS if one of the devices people use. When I watched the TED Talk on TMS and stroke recovery occurring decades after the stroke, which they never thought possible, it was stimulating the nerves, which helped. The same thing for the stimulating the tongue for both balance and to have people “see” with their tongues and people who are recovering from spinal cord injury. None of those things happen without stimulating a nerve or stimulating the brain itself with something like ultrasound or TMS and PEMF is just one of the devices which does it.

When I read a patent application for using Ultrasound for stroke recovery, they said that the vast majority of people who try to do stroke recovery without TMS or Direct Current or Ultrasound end up with disappointing results.

That is what I see around me. My step-mother lost her independence and she is still doing rehab exercises, but she only got rehab results.

#12

The TED Talk where they used TMS and did exercises, they showed the neuronal pathways and what they showed, which stuck with me was that the more parts of the brain engaged, the more pathways involved, the better the results and I think that was something TMS could accomplish, which regular rehab couldn’t. It stimulated more of the brain and caused more of the new neurons to be assigned to the function.

#13

fwiw, I am vegan and have been most of my life. I believe humans are naturally herbivores and it’s best diet for clearing and cleaning pathways . I like to read and watch stuff by vegan health scientist Dr. Nick Delgado . He has some fun vids on youtube recently where he scientifcally shreds keto diet presentations. He’s 66 yrs old and world class weight lifter. He actually had a stroke when he was 23. As a result he changed his diet to vegan and never looked back.

The Brain Gauge is a functional measure
#14

which talk are you referring to. I cant seem to find one like that? x

#15



The Brain Gauge is a functional measure
#16

Solas,

Here is one:

My understanding is that Bob, for instance, started doing plasticity exercises right away, within the part of the stroke recovery where there are special helper cells similar to stem cells, which aid plasticity, but they disappear after a few weeks.

There are a lot of stroke and brain plasticity videos in TED Talks.

#17

I hope PEMF and other modalities are helpful for people with stroke. My opinion (not based on any data I have taken) is that PEMF is likely to promote neuroplasticity and general tissue recovery mechanisms and thus be helpful with most forms of brain injury. I think this is certainly possible. In my case, I have been in a phase of fairly massive neuroplasticity and recovery, so perhaps I did not perceive the added benefits of PEMF directly in my recovery, But it is certainly possible that they were there, and my recovery may also benefit from PEMF in the future.

#18

Yes, you had exceptional plasticity.

I have heard of people having a first stroke and not recovering all the way, and then, having a second stroke and improving better than they were, because the second time, they took advantage of the “window” but I had never heard of someone developing extra skills past pre-stroke levels. Your case seems exceptional. But you were also the first person I have ever heard who started working on it in the ER.

I would agree that it might even be likely that someone in that high degree of plasticity might not notice a difference where people 20 years post-stroke suddenly being able to move their fingers for the first time would be so noticeable.

#19

Prometheus,

I, too, am vegan right now, though only in the past year and a quarter.

I looked at the photo with Dr. Berg and what I am going to say is that Dr. Berg recommends 5% calories from animal products and 10 servings of low glycemic index vegetables, which is SERIOUSLY close to what Dr. Fuhrman recommends.

Dr. Fuhrman said that, for cancer, there was no real difference between vegan and 5% animal products.

Dr. Lederman shared a study where just adding 3.5 servings of vegetables and 1.5 servings of fruit and less than a serving of whole grains, plus 40 minutes of mild exercise and keeping alcohol to one drink a day or less, it lowered the heart attack rate by 75% even with eating meat every day.

With dogs, adding vegetables 3 times per week lowers the risk of cancer by 90% even with them eating meat - and even with them eating grain.

I say that to both sides because people tend to choose sides and start arguments and what I see is that Dr. Hyman calls himself Pegan and so does Dr. Oz and there is basically no difference between them and Dr. Berg and Dr. Axe and Dr. Fuhrman, who identifies more Whole Food Plant Based. Up until very recently, Dr. Ornish was doing his studies with the 5% animal guideline. He moved to Whole Food Plant Based vegan for the past few studies.

Anyway, at the doctor level, the multiple sides agree on 90 to 95% of things.

Fats are disagreed about even within the vegan community - where Dr. Greger uses the Adventist study and encourages an ounce of nuts and flaxseeds and moved Avocado to a green light food.

Dr. Ornish allows something like one walnut and Dr. Barnard allows nuts sprinkled like a flavoring, but he limits it. Dr. Esselstyn is no nuts.

Interestingly, VegSource is interacting with a doctor at a clinic in Italy, who says that his personal testing says that nuts lower arterial function, but the Adventist Study it was the nut eaters who lived longer.

We shall see how it all plays out.

I don’t see the bickering between the two sides as helpful and I feel like it has confused the whole world.

At the Food Revolution Summit (which is going on now) they spoke about how people believe that nutritionists are opposite about everything, but that is the inflammatory way that everybody communicates about things.

Plant Based Science London did a video on Paleo and there is a Vegan and Vegetarian version of Paleo now and the person who is the spokesperson for Paleo didn’t get her healing until she started eating high doses of vegetables, but she got her healing without going off of meat.

I am not trying to be a Devil’s Advocate to either side, I just know that BOTH Keto (Dr. Berg and Dr. Axe’s and Dr. Seyfried’s versions of Keto) AND Whole Food Plant Based are SO much healthier than Standard American Diet and my relatives went Keto and I went Whole Food Plant Based and at least they went off of sugar and processed food and other things and they are eating their vegetables.

#20

I have been meditating on PEMF and stroke brain plasticity and found this from MIT about synapses and brain plasticity.

Then, I went back to try to figure out about PEMF and synapses and the science is above my head, but I feel like they are saying it works by the calcium channels

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep21774

“Exposure to ELF-EMF also potentiates PTP, a form of short-term plasticity, increasing its peak amplitude without impacting its time course. We further investigated the underlying mechanisms and found that calcium channel expression, including the P/Q, N, and R subtypes, at the presynaptic nerve terminal was enhanced, accounting for the increased calcium influx upon stimulation. Thus, we conclude that exposure to ELF-EMF facilitates vesicle endocytosis and synaptic plasticity in a calcium-dependent manner by increasing calcium channel expression at the nerve terminal.”

I am really, really, really not a science person. I try though.

#21

I agree, the farther out you are after a stroke, I think the more likely PEMF would be to be helpful. At least the benefits would be more apparent.

BTW, I started these plasticity exercises as they were loading me into an ambulance, before I got to the ER. My recovery started immediately as a result, and many people noticed it as it progressed. This is such a simple thing that I want everyone to know they need to start these types of simple exercises immediately to get the best results.

#22

Yes, that sentence makes me start tearing up.

I have so many people around me who didn’t get their functions back after a stroke. The times are changing and there now is the concept that people can get the function back 20 years after a stroke, but it is so much harder after the first month and harder still after the first 3 months and harder still after the first year.

The people who are around me were never told that they needed to start right away and they were never told that there was a time window when things would be much easier.

My step-mother is on Parkinson’s meds to try to increase plasticity now, but she had spent 2 weeks in the hospital before they checked her for a stroke, even though not having balance should have been a big enough clue to look for one. It is frustrating to me because I thought they had checked for a stroke. It was another few days before she got to a rehab center and she had already lost over half the first month before starting and they don’t do enough repetitions in rehab settings and when I communicated that, the medical people said that she had a stroke and needed rest and when she got stronger she could do more. I knew immediately that she wasn’t going to regain independence.

There are a few new drugs coming down the line, which seem to increase neurogenesis, but adding things like PEMF are things, which the researchers seem to see better results with.

I really want your message to get out there.

#23

My 43 year old daughter uses the M1 on the left side of her head. Her brain lesion damage is on the right side. I place the coils just above the left ear for 30 minutes. She does this before going to physical therapy and it helps her focus. Her test scores improved a lot better after she began using the M1 before her therapy. This coil placement is one of several mentioned in the book by Dr. Pawluk titled “Power Tools for Health: How pulsed magnetic fields (PEMFs) help you”. This book was recommended by Bob and I highly recommend it too. The reasoning behind the coil placement is that it helps to lower the stroke induced increased activity of the non-damaged side of your brain so the damaged side can function better. It helps balance the activity levels of both hemispheres. She just recently started using it at home too. The more she consistently uses it every day the more it helps her. I hope this helps you on your road to recovery😀

2 Likes
#24

Thank you Linda_Lynn!

I use Dr. Pawluk’s site all the time, but I have never read his book.

Thanks for sharing your daughter’s testimonial.

I probably would benefit greatly if I learned more about how to balance the hemispheres of my brain.

I have had a lot of improvement, but I don’t have that level of coil position placement logic for treating my brain. That is interesting.

#25

We can all learn so much from each other, this website was a great idea, many thanks to Bob!

1 Like
#26

Last night, I was re-watching a video by Dr. Greger where they showed the brain scans from exercise and the brain scans from exercise plus beetroot juice.

The beetroot juice markedly increased brain plasticity.

I don’t necessarily like beetroot juice, but I really like brain plasticity.

#27

as I understand it:
beet juice=nitric oxide increase
pemf=nitric oxide increase
so I guess we need brain scan from exercise with pemf