definitely helps with eye puffiness, but personally i have been using it regularly for fatigued vision after being at the computer for a few hours. once upon a time I’d be able to do 8h straight without impact… now after 3h, my eyes are shot…i can do 8 now with pemf vision but only go 5h as I’ve found other things i need to do haha.
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I am researching to see if PEMF can help the regrowth of endometrial cells in the eye. I have diagnosed as having Fuchs disease where cells in the cornea have died off due to lack of proper fluid circulation. Wondering if Bob has any thoughts or suggestions. I am starting with coils in an eye mask to sleep running omni8 at half power Does that seem appropriate.
Thank you
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Hi @Rick, I don’t have any information on that specific condition, but I do generally think you should try lower intensities around the eyes because it just seems to be more effective. I would start with Omni-8 on 6 or 7, for example. Coils in an eye mask sounds like a good Idea. I would be very interested to hear what you try and what you observe.
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Thank you. Will keep you abreast of any progress
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Hey @Rick have you had any luck with this? I am considering getting one of these devices for tx of my chronic corneal ulcer and dry eye syndrome. Would love to hear about your progress and which machine/protocol you use. I am very tired of this eye issue.
My floaters seem to have gone away in my right eye where I was having the issue. I can’t tell that much about the dry eye issue till I get to see the eye doctor to have him examine it as I don’t notice it till he brought it up on the exam and told me I had Fuchs disease tied to dry eye. I am probably going to see him again in October and will be able to report back
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@Rick I’ve had dry eyes for a few years & been using drops. After learning about PEMF (just this spring) I made some coil glasses ( Coil glasses) My experience with them has been a bit sporadic due to my work (travel) schedule, but I definitely experienced improvement… after wearing them for a few hours each evening for about 1 week, I found significant (if temporary) relief. I hope that when I have a little more control over my schedule I can use the glasses for longer and hopefully achieve more lasting results.
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Thanks, I have been experimenting with it as well. I got the night blinders that some people wear and put the coils in them. I don’t always make it thru the night with them on but make an effort. It seems to help with my floaters. I am currently looking at exosome eye drops that one of the local Dr’s office is using Pretty excited about trying them. Very expensive but may be worth it. I am a bit of a biohacker trying different things out.
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Will you please make a face mask-esque coil? I am super interested in this. Red light therapy masks have become so popular that I’ve been wondering about a pemf version of that. I’m interested in using the a9 for anti-aging effects. I’m curious about if it would increase collagen and elastin.
YES, definitely. I think we need to try this.
If anyone else is interested in a PEMF face mask, please respond here.
We should list the main beneficial effects we are looking for, such as reduction of acne, wrinkles, etc. Please suggest your Ideas.
We also need to determine some way to measure the beneficial effects, so that we can assign a number to the improvement. Ideally this would be something that people can do safely and inexpensively at home, maybe some form of facial image analysis. Any suggestions would be helpful.
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I would be very interested in this! I would love to no longer need frequent liquid nitrogen treatments on numerous areas of actinic keratosis. I find myself needing to visit the dermatologist for this every couple of months at this point to have 6 or 7 areas treated. I have had melanoma, too many basal cell carcinomas to count, and squamous cell carcinoma. I’ve also had to have several Mohs surgeries for skin cancer. So yes I am interested!
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Excellent. We want to get as much input from as many people on this forum as possible, then I will design a system for us to test.
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I am interested. Seems like stumbling upon the traditional business strategy of making a great l platform technology but go to market with vertical specific approaches/use cases.
Thanks. It really is shaping up that way. It has started to grow that way organically. I just need to carefully pick and choose groups to work with. Strategically, I am wrapping technology development, product development, regulatory compliance, clinical testing, IP, etc., around this new emergent mechanism.
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Yay this makes me so happy. Thanks for listening. And thank your wife for me for influencing you haha.
My thoughts on the main beneficial effects we are looking for would be:
- the reduction of fine lines and wrinkles
- reduction of skin laxity and/or skin atrophy
- texture improvement
- increase of collagen
- increase of elastin
Things that it might still impact, but we might need to limit what the focus is:
- reduction of dark circles
- does it affect moisture/hydration levels?
- does it affect pigmentation and irregularities?
- I would consider other potential positive side effects that might still occur. For instance Tretinoin was created for acne, but has a significant improvement on wrinkles. I’m assuming that clearing up acne or eczema or even erythema etc might be a secondary benefit if it is increasing cell turnover. It seems like research on growth factors saw this too.
At a larger level I guess I’d say the goal would be to decrease photoaged skin because that’s a culmination of all those things.
I’m also curious about benefits over long term use:
- does it have an effect on senescent cells
- preventing facial bone and volume loss
- could it be a stand alone treatment to collagen banking
Some things I would think about:
In regards to the mask prototype itself, are you thinking of it being like a few coils that would tape to your face or similar to a RLT mask?
I’m not sure if there is a way to create it without being taped to your face or having tape on it. Seems like the above chain where someone used glasses as a skeleton is an interesting approach on thinking about it.
In my experience wearing it on my face after doing my skincare makes the tape get gross/need to be switched out frequently. And I would prefer not to tape it to my face because sometimes the tape irritates my skin or peels it. You also wouldn’t be able to use it after a skin treatment say like microneedling because your face is essentially an open wound for a week. But it would be incredibly helpful to speed up healing after with a mask.
I would maybe get an omnilux or Dr Dennis gross to see how it’s built or get inspiration from the structure. I don’t have a mask I use a panel, but I feel like my face is kind of small and am wonder how the sizing works for everyone so I think size would be something to consider.
I’d also think about factors like:
- people with an established top tier skincare routine
- If people use Botox
- people that have other skincare treatments done and keep up with it
-(microneedling, lasers, red light therapy, microcurrent therapy) - topical ingredients that already have regenerative properties like Tretinoin, actives, growth factors, and exosomes.
I would take into consideration that either people that have done none of those things might have a higher baseline for improvement or the opposite, the quality of their progress might be really impressive compared to those that have not. And they just amplify the use of pemf. For instance a symbiotic relationship like people getting Botox and then using actives to tackle removing fine lines.
Ways to measure:
- photo progress
- the Fitzpatrick wrinkle and degree of elastosis scale
- potentially using an independent evaluator
- there are devices that measure skin elasticity, I’m not sure what would be best though. Or right for this experiment.
- I wonder if the device this guy uses in this video is legit and could be used
- it looks like there’s new technology that measures skin hydration through your phone
- patient questionnaires (this seems to be an added step of skincare studies)
- In the future, maybe consider biopsy to see at a deeper level. This study saw an improvement in the quality of collagen in the papillary layer and an increase of elastic fibers in the upper dermis when they did biopsies.
- I’d maybe look at skincare rejuvenation studies on how they went about their study and measured it.
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This is really excellent, extremely helpful, thanks.
I am also wondering if ICES-PEMF has synergistic beneficial effects with supplementation with, for example, L-Glycine. I have noticed that a year of daily supplementation with 3g/d L-Glycine has had an overall beneficial effect for me related to skin thickness and toughness (resistance to cuts…)
We should have a short list of supplements and skin treatments to list for anyone who tries ICES-PEMF on the face, so that later maybe we could tease out some of these interactions.
As for the face mask design, I have a coil array design that is I built into the hat insert prototypes last year. It seems to work well, so I thought I would try that first for facial skin. My plan would be to build the coil array into a commercially available face mask (maybe from amazon.com)
I am open to suggestions. The face mask needs to be one that can hold a bit of weight and added thickness. For the coil array, imagine that I would be gluing in a few dozen copper pennies (these are about the right size) to cover most of the face. We would want a face mask that could support the weight of a layer of pennies and still fit well for most people.
Anyone with experience using face masks, please feel free to chime in with suggestions.
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A wonderful user extended this post to Reddit (
), where I synchronously stumbled across it during a quick forum review of RL & NIR mask user experience.
I won’t be able to fully review proposed project outline/post responses & adequately comment on the topic this evening, so I’m leaving this absolutely enthusiastic (!!) placeholder comment in the interim.
Add my name to list of those very excited about this!!
Great! I am looking forward to your thoughts on the topic, and your enthusiastic input.
In terms of current routines, I am using 660/850nm infrared light, Gly-NAC (the combo I learned from you), and GHK-Cu peptide cream.
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Would the face mask be able to treat the eyes and/or ears? I need to treat both but it is difficult to do so.