@Rick I’ve had dry eyes for a few years & been using drops. After learning about PEMF (just this spring) I made some coil glasses ( Coil glasses) My experience with them has been a bit sporadic due to my work (travel) schedule, but I definitely experienced improvement… after wearing them for a few hours each evening for about 1 week, I found significant (if temporary) relief. I hope that when I have a little more control over my schedule I can use the glasses for longer and hopefully achieve more lasting results.
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Thanks, I have been experimenting with it as well. I got the night blinders that some people wear and put the coils in them. I don’t always make it thru the night with them on but make an effort. It seems to help with my floaters. I am currently looking at exosome eye drops that one of the local Dr’s office is using Pretty excited about trying them. Very expensive but may be worth it. I am a bit of a biohacker trying different things out.
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Will you please make a face mask-esque coil? I am super interested in this. Red light therapy masks have become so popular that I’ve been wondering about a pemf version of that. I’m interested in using the a9 for anti-aging effects. I’m curious about if it would increase collagen and elastin.
YES, definitely. I think we need to try this.
If anyone else is interested in a PEMF face mask, please respond here.
We should list the main beneficial effects we are looking for, such as reduction of acne, wrinkles, etc. Please suggest your Ideas.
We also need to determine some way to measure the beneficial effects, so that we can assign a number to the improvement. Ideally this would be something that people can do safely and inexpensively at home, maybe some form of facial image analysis. Any suggestions would be helpful.
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I would be very interested in this! I would love to no longer need frequent liquid nitrogen treatments on numerous areas of actinic keratosis. I find myself needing to visit the dermatologist for this every couple of months at this point to have 6 or 7 areas treated. I have had melanoma, too many basal cell carcinomas to count, and squamous cell carcinoma. I’ve also had to have several Mohs surgeries for skin cancer. So yes I am interested!
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Excellent. We want to get as much input from as many people on this forum as possible, then I will design a system for us to test.
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I am interested. Seems like stumbling upon the traditional business strategy of making a great l platform technology but go to market with vertical specific approaches/use cases.
Thanks. It really is shaping up that way. It has started to grow that way organically. I just need to carefully pick and choose groups to work with. Strategically, I am wrapping technology development, product development, regulatory compliance, clinical testing, IP, etc., around this new emergent mechanism.
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Yay this makes me so happy. Thanks for listening. And thank your wife for me for influencing you haha.
My thoughts on the main beneficial effects we are looking for would be:
- the reduction of fine lines and wrinkles
- reduction of skin laxity and/or skin atrophy
- texture improvement
- increase of collagen
- increase of elastin
Things that it might still impact, but we might need to limit what the focus is:
- reduction of dark circles
- does it affect moisture/hydration levels?
- does it affect pigmentation and irregularities?
- I would consider other potential positive side effects that might still occur. For instance Tretinoin was created for acne, but has a significant improvement on wrinkles. I’m assuming that clearing up acne or eczema or even erythema etc might be a secondary benefit if it is increasing cell turnover. It seems like research on growth factors saw this too.
At a larger level I guess I’d say the goal would be to decrease photoaged skin because that’s a culmination of all those things.
I’m also curious about benefits over long term use:
- does it have an effect on senescent cells
- preventing facial bone and volume loss
- could it be a stand alone treatment to collagen banking
Some things I would think about:
In regards to the mask prototype itself, are you thinking of it being like a few coils that would tape to your face or similar to a RLT mask?
I’m not sure if there is a way to create it without being taped to your face or having tape on it. Seems like the above chain where someone used glasses as a skeleton is an interesting approach on thinking about it.
In my experience wearing it on my face after doing my skincare makes the tape get gross/need to be switched out frequently. And I would prefer not to tape it to my face because sometimes the tape irritates my skin or peels it. You also wouldn’t be able to use it after a skin treatment say like microneedling because your face is essentially an open wound for a week. But it would be incredibly helpful to speed up healing after with a mask.
I would maybe get an omnilux or Dr Dennis gross to see how it’s built or get inspiration from the structure. I don’t have a mask I use a panel, but I feel like my face is kind of small and am wonder how the sizing works for everyone so I think size would be something to consider.
I’d also think about factors like:
- people with an established top tier skincare routine
- If people use Botox
- people that have other skincare treatments done and keep up with it
-(microneedling, lasers, red light therapy, microcurrent therapy) - topical ingredients that already have regenerative properties like Tretinoin, actives, growth factors, and exosomes.
I would take into consideration that either people that have done none of those things might have a higher baseline for improvement or the opposite, the quality of their progress might be really impressive compared to those that have not. And they just amplify the use of pemf. For instance a symbiotic relationship like people getting Botox and then using actives to tackle removing fine lines.
Ways to measure:
- photo progress
- the Fitzpatrick wrinkle and degree of elastosis scale
- potentially using an independent evaluator
- there are devices that measure skin elasticity, I’m not sure what would be best though. Or right for this experiment.
- I wonder if the device this guy uses in this video is legit and could be used
- it looks like there’s new technology that measures skin hydration through your phone
- patient questionnaires (this seems to be an added step of skincare studies)
- In the future, maybe consider biopsy to see at a deeper level. This study saw an improvement in the quality of collagen in the papillary layer and an increase of elastic fibers in the upper dermis when they did biopsies.
- I’d maybe look at skincare rejuvenation studies on how they went about their study and measured it.
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This is really excellent, extremely helpful, thanks.
I am also wondering if ICES-PEMF has synergistic beneficial effects with supplementation with, for example, L-Glycine. I have noticed that a year of daily supplementation with 3g/d L-Glycine has had an overall beneficial effect for me related to skin thickness and toughness (resistance to cuts…)
We should have a short list of supplements and skin treatments to list for anyone who tries ICES-PEMF on the face, so that later maybe we could tease out some of these interactions.
As for the face mask design, I have a coil array design that is I built into the hat insert prototypes last year. It seems to work well, so I thought I would try that first for facial skin. My plan would be to build the coil array into a commercially available face mask (maybe from amazon.com)
I am open to suggestions. The face mask needs to be one that can hold a bit of weight and added thickness. For the coil array, imagine that I would be gluing in a few dozen copper pennies (these are about the right size) to cover most of the face. We would want a face mask that could support the weight of a layer of pennies and still fit well for most people.
Anyone with experience using face masks, please feel free to chime in with suggestions.
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A wonderful user extended this post to Reddit (
), where I synchronously stumbled across it during a quick forum review of RL & NIR mask user experience.
I won’t be able to fully review proposed project outline/post responses & adequately comment on the topic this evening, so I’m leaving this absolutely enthusiastic (!!) placeholder comment in the interim.
Add my name to list of those very excited about this!!
Great! I am looking forward to your thoughts on the topic, and your enthusiastic input.
In terms of current routines, I am using 660/850nm infrared light, Gly-NAC (the combo I learned from you), and GHK-Cu peptide cream.
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Would the face mask be able to treat the eyes and/or ears? I need to treat both but it is difficult to do so.
My best guess:
Probably the eyes, at least indirectly.
Probably not the ears. Some people find PEMF stimulation of ears to be a bit too irritating.
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i have found pemf for eyes have been great for helping with fatigue when things get blurry and i need to push for another few hours. they have also been great in waking up in the morning, opening up my eyes as if they were never closed for sleep. typically waking up, it takes some time for my sleepy eyes to open widely… y’know how you can tell you woke them up from a long sleep… kinda puffy, half closed? haha… that’s a non issue with pemf overnight. as for long term effects…i dunno… would be nice to improve my vision, but haven’t gone to eye doctor in a while to see how the numbers look.
i know for ears, they don’t help hearing much as my mom has tried that for a good month. does it take longer? does it work for others? 
maybe just a matter of experimenting
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@Stewarmh
-Feedback on your mother’s recovery >>> Thanks, that is helpful.
-Facemask/prototyping - no time for that yet. Assume 2 to 3 years, maybe I can get to it.
Your other suggestions: Thanks. If you read through pretty much all of this forum from the beginning you will see that the things you have suggested have been discussed at length, especially with @TajD and @OptimalHealth, for many years, since the very beginning years ago. I do not mean to be harsh to you, but honestly, it is a bit insulting that you would assume I have never considered any (or all) of this. If you take the time to see what I am really all about by reading all of my posts on this forum, you might understand why I feel that way. And honestly, hundreds of people have suggested all of these things, almost daily, for many years. But will I assume your heart is in the right place and that you are trying to be helpful. And thank you for the positive feedback.
Oh gosh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to come off in an inappropriate or condescending way. I just got excited and wanted to share thoughts.
Was never intending to say you hadn’t thought about that stuff or no one else has said that or that you were doing anything wrong. Was truly trying to be helpful and positive as I believe in what you do and would love for it to grow even more.
To be honest I was looking forward to how you’d respond so am a little deflated. Genuinely was trying to show support so I deleted the comment and probably best I take I hiatus from here for awhile.
I understand, and if you choose to step away from this forum, then I will be sorry to see you go.
If you decide to stay, then you should know that I really do appreciate the time you took to make suggestions. You must have spent a lot of time writing all of that, and I do appreciate it.
Well, I think your heart is in the right place, and your intentions are good, and you are certainly willing to put in a good effort. So, I think we are fine with this. So, let’s try to make this a very positive interaction.
Here is my thinking, based on a few decades of experience with this:
To begin with, I an anti-marketer. The main problem in spreading the truth about PEMF, and opening it to a wider market, has been the absolutely zero-integrity marketing that had dominated for many decades. Over-hype, pseudo science, plenty of fraudulent claims including that their products are “NASA SCIENCE!!”, all of this is a very long story. You can find discussions of it all around this forum, and all over the Internet (I have made and been interviewed in many podcasts).
For this reason, I completely avoid anything that has the whiff of marketing.
If I were just to post the accurate descriptive words for some of the PEMF marketers I have had to deal with over the years, I would end up in court defending the truth (again). If you want to know how bad some of these people are, you should read this book:
(if the link is broken, search amazon for “Living with the Devil” by Lori Hart)
The person described in this book is the person who promulgated the rumor about PEMF and “Schumann Frequencies”, made a lot of fraudulent claims about his work with NASA, evidently using genetic evidence was convicted for [verb deleted] at least one of his wives several decades ago, and ended up dying a few years ago in jail in Chicago, etc.
If you’d rather, you can watch the story of this person on Investigation Discovery. There are at least two hours of reporting on his behavior. They don’t even get around to the fraud in his PEMF activities. This is the kind of person I have had to deal with to restore integrity to the field of PEMF.
This is just one example of the type of very bad people who have poisoned the entire field of PEMF for everyone. Until his discovery and extradition from across the country, he had been one of the foremost PEMF marketers, pod-casters, fraudsters…
So, I have been fighting a mighty crusade against PEMF marketing for decades. The very last thing I will engage in is slick marketing, or even standard marketing. My entire strategy is this:
Optimize PEMF as the best possible product with the best price and solid science.
Tell the truth.
I don’t engage in debates with the the countless PEMF marketer bad people out there.
They outnumber me 100 to 1.
Science and health is hard:
Telling a lie takes only a few seconds.
But proving one truth takes decades and millions of dollars.
So, I just do the hard work of science and engineering, then I tell the truth about it.
I don’t make web pages showing smiling seniors walking on a beach or playing golf.
I don’t spend my time sustaining constant-contact multi-mode social media.
I have one message, I try to tell it plainly, and if anyone asks, I try to explain the science.
With all of this in mind, I am always open to suggestions.
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welcome to the group and congrats on eventually finding a pemf tech where the inventor and engineer is not only actually accessible for your 100s of questions, but also is an advocate for people’s health and benefit from his tech!
i guess i missed the excitement here! like you, i was excited about Bob’s ices pemf tech and it sounds like (again like you) you had a post about your thoughts and ideas about what might be cool to add to the tech. the difference for me was that i had privately messaged Bob my ideas and like you, i didn’t realize how much he has been spammed about “great ideas” from the pemf charlatans and marketers already! and this was maybe a short 5+years ago! haha… don’t worry… consider yourself initiated. 
Bob didn’t waste anytime warning me how much he despised marketers 
anyway, as you dig into this forum, you’ll find a lot of the same questions and little rabbit holes that many users before you have explored.
we all have our hot buttons… we found some of Bob’s! but to balance that bite, he’s very transparent about everything he does and continues to be very generous with his time connecting with us commoners!
he can clearly charge 5x more for his tech and at least raise prices with the reason for inflation and cost of labor etc, but he has proven to defy the economics of pemf marketers and even most of the goods that are sold to consumers by maintaining his very reasonable pricing over the years!
thanks for all that you do @Bob! … lucky for us that you are clearly doing what you love and we get to all benefit!
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