Flux Health Forum

ICES for enhancing meditation?

Hi guys,
I am about to buy the M1 model as the device seems very promising to help me with enhancing my meditation. I meditate regularly in order to boost neuroplasticity and help my brain to heal itself after several traumatic experiences and mild injury.

Do you think ICES could support my effort to heal the brain and enhance or boost the effectiveness of my mediation? From what I’ve read I really believe so. Thanks

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I used this book as a reference to help me decide where to place the coils for the treatment of vertigo. It worked so well that later I used it to treat depression. I had the depression for a couple of months and was prepared to carefully document the treatments but only one treatment was necessary to lift the depression! I also used it to treat insomnia and it took about 4 treatments. As a cautionary note I used too high an intensity for the insomnia and overslept the first couple of times (like 12 hours the first time). Best of luck! https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Scalp-Acupuncture-Jason-Ji-shun/dp/1891845608

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@Relgie, that is really great, thanks for sharing. Were you using an M1? What protocol and power level did you use? How long were your sessions and when were they relative to each other?

Thank you very much for your input! The idea of using acupuncture as a map for the coils placement was exactly what I was thinking about. I didnt know there is such a book though. It seems great and I ordered it immediately. So thanks a lot for recommendation and sharing your experience. I’d be also interested in hearing what protocol/power level you used if you dont mind sharing. Have a great day

Hey Nicolas! For a while I was interested in tDCS (transcranial direct current stimulation) but unfortunately I don’t remember many of the exact details. But, there is a lot of scientific information and pop information in the tDCS field. The pop info is for gamers who get stoked up on highly caffeinated beverages and apply tDCS to enhance their gaming performance—it is serious business for them and they stimulate specific spots. I do recall that for the insomnia I had to go very low to avoid oversleeping, down to I think intensity level 4 even. The book by Dr. Hao was tremendously helpful as he is very specific about exactly what points to stimulate for what reason. Incidentally, in tDCS they are concerned about positive versus negative stimulation but I never noticed any difference in effect in my limited self treatments.

Hey TajD, I have a M1 and C5. For the insomnia treatment I used the C5 because I wanted to sleep all night with it and I found the most beneficial intensity setting was low (4 I think, emphasizing Delta waveform of course because I wanted to sleep). For depression it was during the day and I was very cautious about the possibility of adverse side effects so I planned carefully to keep the treatments very short and carefully monitored but, its kind of funny because as I stated the depression (not medically diagnosed btw) lifted with a single treatment so I never got to follow my carefully planned schedule of treatments! This might seem astonishing but actually tDCS is a big money making business in psychiatry having largely replaced the old ECT (electroconvulsive therapy). You mentioned meditation and if you search around the tDCS literature you will find areas to stimulate for transcendental purposes. Naturally I have no idea about the legitimacy of that. I guess you would use Theta waveform.

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Thanks @Relgie. I ordered https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Scalp-Acupuncture-Jason-Ji-shun/dp/1891845608

Curious if you have seen this resource https://totaltdcs.com/electrode-placement-montage-list/depression-and-anxiety/ and if it jives with what you have experienced. The home page of that site lists multiple different tDCS configurations with imagery. Trying to get the lay of the land as I explore this space for the first time.

Hey TajD thanks for the link to “Total tDCS.” I had not seen this particular site and I notice it is new (copyright 2021) but the information does match other tDCS information. What I noticed that seems unique is the similarities between scalp acupuncture and tDCS. This happened accidentally when I was seeing Dr. Hao for the treatment of vertigo and he used direct current to stimulate the needles after inserting them in the scalp. At about the same time I was writing a paper on the use of electromagnetic brain treatments for depression and psychosis so it was not a big leap to connect the two. Dr. Hao is known for treating folks with quadriplegia and paraplegia with scalp acupuncture and he shares as evidenced by his book so I think you might find it helpful. I look forward to hearing your analysis.

Thank you all for your replies guys. I ordered the M1 model and Dr Hao’s book as well and should have it delivered by the end of next week. I’ll start experimenting soon and give you know the results. Have a great weekend

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Hey Nicholas et al—I was reviewing my scalp acupuncture book and found these pages which refreshed my memory a bit. The first reference (Smith and Clithero, 2009) is available online and it will probably interest you. The two cranial reference points (DLPFC: F3 and F4) mentioned by Smith and Clitero (2009) are the ones I used to treat depression and in my case I had remarkable results. Using the M1 low intensity (less than 5) and Omni 8 for 30 minutes a single treatment completely resolved a depressive episode that had persisted for weeks. I know this sounds preposterous but I’m just reporting my experience. Since then some evidence has been published suggesting that depression may be an inflammatory problem so that stands to reason. Note that the F3 and F4 regions are among the regions used by Dr. Hao for treatment of many conditions including depression. For vertigo I placed coils on F4 and P10 and note that P10 corresponds loosely with the “Balance Area” used by Dr. Hao. (My vertigo was right side). One last point—in tDCS they emphasize polarity which I don’t think matters much but it could. For vertigo I did use reverse polarity based on speculation that it would facilitate moving the magnetic impulse from F4 to P10. Also, the coils are so much bigger than a needle point that I speculate that I was treating the region rather than the point. I’m wondering about that now—for example, when I treat knee inflammation I place the coils on and as close to the areas of pain but what about placing them in reverse polarity along the acupuncture meridian to draw energy through the injury? Just wondering…

Regie thanks a lot. Now this is mega helpful. I’ll definitely look into this. I already received the M1 model and Dr Hao’s book so am about to start trying it. “Unfortunately” I feel good now so theres nothing to heal :smiley: But my mum suffers from vertigo so I’ll try the points you talk about. Thank you agan and have a great day

@nicolas I was wondering if you’ve been using ICES in your meditation practice and if so, do you have any insight to share? Thanks!

Hey,
I’ve been trying it for the last couple of weeks but I am very careful about it because I have a very sensitive brain obviously. It definitely works and it definitely affects brain activity. So far I’ve been able to make myself more productive and almost hyperactive by targeting DLPFC and / or calming down by targeting vagus nerve (neck and chest). When it comes to meditation you could use the vagus nerve stimulation I guess.

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