bfuruta thanks for the helpful info. This confirms my resolve to limit any further grounding to being out in clean nature…no pesticide contaminated areas! A recent one day home grounding exposure for rotator cuff tear resulted in debilitating pain compared to previously a mildly annoying condition. Next day w/o grounding it was noticeably improved. Without all this feedback I would have lacked insight. Gratitude!
I’m glad you asked, because I was going to chime in on this conversation if I had anything helpful to add. I have been mulling it over in my head.
BRIEFLY: yes, I do think the correct approach to this kind of thing is to add stimulus noise rather than to try to shield it. I think that basic technical approach probably makes sense if it is done correctly. However I am unable to say whether or not that specific product does what I think would be most useful, and whether or not it does that correctly.
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PLEASE STOP READING IF YOU HAVE IRRATIONAL FEARS OF EVERYTHING
A BIT MORE TECHNICAL DETAIL:
Most people, even professional toxicologists, don’t really understand the concept of biological dose-response curves. This is because they are complicated, and you actually have to look at them without political, financial, or emotional bias.
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REALLY, PLEASE STOP READING IF YOU HAVE IRRATIONAL FEARS OF EVERYTHING
ERRORS of THOUGHT:
1 - Most people have a vastly oversimplified view of the world. They view biological dose-response as a straight line through zero (called the linear no-threshold hypothesis)
If a little bit is good then more is better - FALSE -
If a lot is bad, then a little bit is still bad, but maybe a bit less - FALSE -
2- Most toxicologists do a bit better, at least in their documents meant for public or regulatory consumption. Their description of biological dose-response is sigmoidal (“S” shaped), showing a lower threshold indicating the start of toxicity and an upper threshold indicating the range of maximum toxicity. This representation of biological dose-response is better, but it misses some of the most important real facts that we see all across biology.
A MORE REAL VIEW OF REALITY:
In my scientific opinion, a much more accurate view of most biological dose-response characteristics are described by either basic hormesis, or by a tri-phasic “inverse hormesis” curve. I’ve discussed this at length in a recent scientific publication, using real data that I collected and real world examples:
https://www.josam.org/josam/article/view/58
Briefly, hormesis describes the fact that something that can be harmful in large doses can actually be beneficial in small doses. The famous example here is what’s called “radiation hormesis”. Many types of radiation, recently feared by everyone, turns out to be an essential part of the universe, it is essential for life, and in small doses can actually be quite beneficial. You can read plenty about this on the Internet so I won’t repeat that type of basic information here. But if you do decide to go reading about it you need to pull your head out of the echo chamber where people just scream about the dangers of radiation (or the blithe acceptance of the safety of radiation) and you need to read outside of that fear-based mindset (or the acquiescent mindset).
NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME LINKS TO BLOGS THAT DISAGREE VIOLENTLY.
ALSO, DO NOT POST LINKS TO PAGES THAT INCLUDE POLITICAL APPAREL FOR SALE ON EITHER SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM.
READ WIDELY, STUDY, THINK FOR YOURSELF, AND FEEL FREE TO QUIETLY DISAGREE WITH ME. BUT THIS IS NOT A DEBATE. IT IS MY SCIENTIFIC OPINION.
Tri-phasic inverse hormesis is a bit more interesting. Many things in the biological world seem to work this way. The way to think about it is sort of like the “Goldilocks effect”:
Too little heat = Porridge is too COLD
Too much heat = Porridge is too HOT
Just the right amount of heat = JUST RIGHT
Many things in biology work this way. Consider planting seeds:
Every child knows that seeds need warmth, moisture, and sunlight to germinate.
Too little of any one or more of those three = no germination
Too much of any one or more of those three = death of the seedling
Just the right amount of all three over time = healthy plants
HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO EMI SHIELDING?
It is currently my technical opinion that we are all bathed in relatively small doses of radio frequency energy that are large enough to elicit a biological effect but too small to be anything more than just confusing noise. This may result in harmful biological responses. I think the product that you have made reference to in the post I am responding to uses the basic same logic and concludes that if you add a large beneficial signal it will basically over-ride the smaller noisy signal from EMI. I basically agree that this approach could work if it is applied intelligently. I am not able to determine if the actual product is implemented correctly, but I do not fundamentally disagree with their technical approach.
Another way to look at this is another child’s story: The Princess and the Pea.
A single pea in an otherwise smooth bed is a noticeable irritation. One approach is to try to locate and remove the pea itself. A different approach would be to pour a whole bunch of peas under the mattress. Then you would no longer have a single point of irritation, and most people would find that actually somewhat comfortable. Analogously, if you add more beneficial radio frequency signals on top of very low level irritating signals, the average person might find that the irritation disappears.
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Great question and I’ve wanted to ask similar on this board for a while. If I’m wearing the coils on my lower back while laying on the grounding pad is there any magnification or canceling out? Instead of responding to each reply in the thread, I’ll provide my feedback here.
- I slept on a grounding sheet and use a desk pad at work for the past several years.
- I have a BluShield cube and keep a portable in my pocket when out of the house.
- I have a Somavedic Medic in the house and also carry the small portable in my pocket.
I have also changed a lot about my health, diet, more sunlight / less blue light exposures, and supplementation during the same period so it’s impossible to say what aspect more than any other has provided the most benefit, but I’ve experienced the following:
- Best sleep I’ve had my entire adult / working life. I’ve never achieved regular 6-8 hours, ever, but now I do.
- Rarely get up to go to the bathroom during the night. Maybe once or twice a week at most, and usually closer to wake up time. Rarely 1 or 2 and then 3-4 in the morning like used to do daily.
- Much more “comfortable” getting out of bed with less joint aches. Very recently I’ve had a bout of cervical / lumbar flare ups, but overall the frequency has been much less the past 2 years.
- Energy like I’ve never had since teen ager (maybe more energy).
- Overall well being and mood improvement.
My laymen understanding is that life runs on electrons and grounding provides a free and limitless supply to reduce inflammation and a host of other benefits. I’ve seen the Stetzer argument and others that support it, but Clint Ober proclaims and has data to state the opposite. I don’t know who’s correct. I have done skin-voltage tests on myself and when grounded the voltage goes to zero so I question how i’m passing anything through me that’s not measurable. I’ve had my home wiring tested by a building biology specialist and my wiring noise & harmonic levels were pretty clean by comparison to most of the homes he studies.
I really wish grounding would be studied more, but realistically nobody is taking up the initiative, as there’s no money in it. I live in the City and do wonder what errant charges / fields may be picked up by the ground and wiring, but I don’t feel I’ve had any ill effects at all.
That’s my story…
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I appreciate your input and glad the indoor grounding has helped you. My belief everyone’s experience is individual. Mine was that the negative was too coincidental to be ignored and overtime I’m convinced the indoor grounding while online caused my significant problem. Granted I did have other preexisting foot conditions, and possibly the negative seeks out the weakened area. I’ve read, and believe, removal from the earth’s energies is detrimental to our health, including shoes preventing anatomical foot health…muscular etc. I will definitely access the earth’s natural grounding energies, daily, here on out.
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congrats on the improved quality of life thru lifestyle changes.
i really wonder how much your regular diet and supplements changed and the impact it has had on your body.
depending how big a change and how long it’s been, i wonder how much your diet and supps helped you. often we underestimate the changes from the routine diet and exercise that can really make massive, positive impact
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Lifestyle medicine, that of diet, exercise/activity, stress reduction and adequate sleep empower us with our health, and lack of in the general public, result in the the prevalence of obesity, diabetes and chronic ills. Enter the benefits of pemf, ICES backed research.
I have been using my device off and on during the day for 4 months or so. I have noticed some positive changes and plan to increase my usage.
One day while wearing my device at work I had my iPhone in a pocket, and the device in a pocket next to it, coils in the hip area, I noticed my iPhone getting very warm to the touch. I removed the iPhone and turned it off and later powered it back on with no problems, Could the device I have cause the phone to heat up and if so, should I keep the two at a certain distance while they are both on?
that is very unlikely. Just be sure to try to keep it ventilated (not flat against an object like a phone) and the coil plug fully inserted to avoid short circuits.
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A suggestion for future models if possible, could you make the coils so you have to turn and lock it in? I use mine daily and the coil plug in often comes out slightly while in my pocket or wrapped on my arm and I think it is treating me for hours while it has not been. My M1 which has had a tiny fraction of the use of my A9s has also had the sides around the battery break at 2 points (I tried to glue it back on but it did not hold) so I have to use an elastic band to keep the battery in, which doesn’t always keep the battery in tight enough contact.
Yes, connectors and batteries are the two main problem areas. It turns out that is generally true with all electronics. When it is being worn by a person, those problems get worse much more quickly.
So, one of the main features of my gen 6.5 redesign work is to significantly improve the issues with connectors and batteries.
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that would be great to have a manual locking mechanism for the coil wires to the device.
i love the manually taped (reinforced) coil wires. when i sleep on them and they get pulled, they’re much more durable than without the tape 
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It will probably be an entirely different connector mechanism. There is nothing suitable on the market. People have suggested specific connectors such as those for guitar amps, and many others, but they always:
- cost hundreds of dollars
and/or
-are massive in size
and/or
-are as large or larger than the ICES-PEMF device itself
and/or
-are simply not available, anywhere on earth
batteries, connectors, coils are a really challenging design problem. That is one reason you do not see a lot of commercially-available wearable electronics. Sure, you see the odd thing here and there, a lot of DIY stuff, but we should be living in a world filled with wearable electronics but we do not, because of the problems with the availability of durable, reliable, light-weight, long-life, and low-priced:
- Batteries
- Connectors
- Cables
- Anything in contact with the body for extended periods of time
I am doing what I can. But there are limits. Bill Pawluk once blithely commented that all I needed to do was “develop a new battery technology: one that is smaller, less expensive, safer, and lasts longer!”
I pointed out that this modest goal was the single largest budget item for Tesla Motors, consumed most of their engineering staff hours for a single project, and has been the focus of major funding and research by DAPRA and the DoD in general, not to mention dozens of other private companies.
And that is just to develop better batteries…
Some of this seems like a small thing, but it is not. I am doing the best I can.
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I would like to make a suggestion. Don’t mess with the connectors on the coils, instead make a strain relief that attaches to the PEMF device securely and the other piece connects securely to the wire an inch or so from the connector. These two pieces could be a narrow fabric belt or a cord that hooks, snaps, buttons or velcros together. The strain relief idea will protect the vulnerable wire/coil connection and prevent the connector from being pulled out by the wire tugging on it.
/Jon
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That actually works pretty well. You can do that DIY by using a small diameter (~1") rubber band: just loop it around the strain relief on the connector, then loop around the device. If you adjust it correctly, it keeps the connector tightly into the device.
that reminds me on the battery note… the cheapy, free battery backup chargers they give away as promos at conventions seem to work very well. i have a promotional battery, and it works great as a battery for the m1.
I’ll have to see what matches it on Amazon, but this may be an older model that is no longer carried…
I seem to remember you mentioning last year that you thought the new iteration of ICES might be completed around this time this year. I’m sure COVID has thrown that roadmap for a bit of a loop, but am curious if you have any sort of current ETA on gen 6.5?
It is very hard to say, that is why I almost never say. It depends on so many variables I actually could not write them all down. It is like guessing when you will win the lottery.
What I say every time it this:
If you need PEMF now,
get PEMF now.
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And we are glad you are. Thanks Bob!
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i can’t picture what you’re describing.
using this tape: TapeCase - 1-5-423-5 423-5 UHMW Tape Roll 1 in. (W) x 15 ft. (L) - Abrasion Resistant High Tack Acrylic Adhesive. Sealants and Tapes https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00823JF0S/
and did this
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since last commenting on this post, I’ve discovered the benefit of grounding… this effectively can help offset the problems with excessive exposure to emf… search in forum about grounding … this was also a good video about grounding:
