Thanks for the reply. This makes sense and I may also purchase a c5. I also have been thinking about purchasing a super pulsed laser in conjunction with using the PEmF for ligament healing. Do you see any reason why the two couldn’t be used together to treat an injury?
I think you can certainly use the two together. Many clinicians regularly do so:
THIS. People are so quick to throw around terms that sound plausible, but have no precise, much less quantifiable scientific meaning. ‘Negative’ magnetic fields? What is that even?
In the academic sense, a negative field, charge, current, etc can mean the opposite direction or orientation in a given spatial reference frame, such as a cartesian or spherical coordinate system that describes 3 dimensional space. Negative can also indicate the opposite direction of movement, or perhaps the opposite phase of a wave.
First, using a term like ‘negative’ requires a defined and understood framework first to define the terms and orientation of things. You can’t just allow people to use terms such positive and negative without such a framework and have it mean anything.
In this thread, what does a positive field even mean, much less a negative one? Do these simplistic labels define a direction, orientation, flow, movement, or shape of something? Who knows. So, for me, it’s meaningless.
I see amateurs using terms like this all the time without context and an established framework of understanding to communicate anything that can be understood, rather relying on the simplistic presuppositions of the hearers’ understanding to mean that positive is good, negative is bad, etc. I assure you I can create a technically correctly labeled positive EMF that, in the right conditions can be terribly bad for you. Said positive EMF field can put you in a very negative emotional state by harming you or others. But saying that it’s a positive thing because the correct term to describe the field is ‘positive’ is nonsense.
The term du jour that people love to use now is ‘quantum’. They are using it to imply a certain level of scientifically proven rigor to otherwise unproven, unquantifiable things like emotional and spiritual states. It’s also used to inappropriately describe things such as technologies and even financial systems, without any framework of understanding what quantum means. And they do this all the while disregarding the scientific established meaning of quantum (i.e. physics) that generally in lay terms means something is fundamentally discrete and indivisible (energy state). But people have coopted the term to impute all manner of futuristic Sci-Fi qualities to all kinds of things that have no business being described with the term quantum.
So it goes. And so is the end of my linguistic rant. I rant because our language must be precise to communicate ideas clearly, especially in the realm of science. Other wise we might as well call EMF’s good and evil.
- List item
Are Dr. Pawluk’s recommended devices list on his website good recommendations or are they tied in with sponsorship. I noticed on his YouTube videos many years ago he seemed to like Earthpulse for sleep. Now he seems to be mentioning the Flexpulse for sleep purposes. He says he had a input in the device. So does that influence his opinions because of involvement with Flexpulse?
I am only asking this as I read another post on here regarding the Ben Greenfield fiasco. Which Mr Greenfield should be ashamed of. As you are one of the leading experts in PEMF.
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I think in general they are good recommendations. I know Dr. Pawluk well, and he is constantly evaluating PEMF products and their clinical benefits. Just like anyone else, his opinions will change over time with new information.
Full disclosure: Dr, Pawluk has asked me to work with him to develop an even better sleep-promoting PEMF system, so his opinions may change yet again based on how well that works.
But overall, I think you are correct to be concerned because most (all?) PEMF marketers are driven by one thing: personal profit. Many will claim otherwise, but very few marketers are involved in a product for any reason other than their desire to turn a quick profit. Bill Pawluk is first and foremost a clinician, and his entry into PEMF sales was driven primarily by the need to have someone who could understand and represent PEMF products accurately with an eye toward their demonstrated clinical benefits. I know he sometimes sells systems that do not make him a lot of money. Most marketers would never do that.
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thanks for clarifying… my impression did lean on the concern of his recommendations more based on affiliate fees than that of honest effectiveness. sad, but true, you are the only voice in this space that i trust to the extent of your honest understanding of the tech.
Being brutally honest, I think it is only human to have a bias toward recommending things where we have a profit incentive. Some people balance this well against the need to give good advice, contribute toward the Greater Good, etc. I think the vast majority of PEMF marketers (and marketers in general) do this very poorly. But Bill Pawluk does a pretty good job of striking this balance. I know, for instance, that he often declines to represent PEMF manufacturers that have certain questionable business practices, or systems that have questionable clinical benefit, even though they offer him significant financial incentives.
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Bob, I know you say that Gauss ratings are not really an accurate indicator of the ‘power’ of devices. But you must have some rule of thumb whereby to rate low-powered and high-powered devices. For sure, the original Bemer at .35 Gauss output would be low-powered. Full mats now come with claims of 2.2 Gauss output (like the OMI). I’ve seen these referenced as “low-power” too - compared to mats that claim output of 50 Gauss, 100 Gauss, 500 Gauss, 7,000 Gauss, 12,000 Gauss etc. (You have referenced Dr. Pawluck’s site, and he lists a number of high-Gauss devices and uses Gauss in his device comparison.)
Knowing that the posted Gauss ratings may be neither accurate nor definitive, there must be some relationship to “power.” So, can you give us a rule of thumb whereby we can differentiate between safe full-body mats and others that may do damage?
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I’d like to address this in two parts: Potential harm that is (1) major versus (2) subtle of various PEMF Products:
By Potential “Major Harm”, I mean the potential of causing injury or death that anyone would immediately appreciate: heart attacks, electrical burns, severe nerve damage, major tissue lesions or tumors or the promotion of sepsis, etc.
Potential Major Harm: As far as I know, PEMF products are not generally causing major harm to people. Even the ultra-powerful ones tend to be pretty harmless (when used correctly). Otherwise, there would be major product recalls and many scientific and clinical reports on this topic, but there are not. I have read every scientific paper in every language on the topic of PEMF, including clinical case studies, and I have never heard of a case of PEMF used correctly causing this type of harm.
By Potential “Subtle Harm”, I mean those injuries not yet generally appreciated by mainstream medicine, such as the type of harm reported by people with EMI sensitivity, and things of a similar nature.
Subtle Harm is, by its nature, very difficult to detect and to prove. Just as a matter of common sense, the approach should be to remove all known types of electromagnetism from the PEMF signal that are not biologically beneficial. I have been able to show, and have written extensively about, the fact that it is possible to remove at least 99% of the power from typical PEMF pulses and still retain full biological benefit. So, what, exactly, was the remaining 99% of the power doing? Nothing beneficial, maybe something harmful. Its hard to say for sure, but that energy is definitely not needed, and confers no benefit, so it should be removed from all PEMF waveforms.
This is precisely what I have done over the past 25 years, and it is why I trademarked ICES-PEMF, so that I could have technical control over the use of a specific term (ICES) that identifies that product that uses a biophysically efficient and effective waveform.
Unfortunately, that means that the advertised “power” of a PEMF product is not a very good guide to whether it is safe or not from the standpoint of “subtle harm”.
SUMMARY:
When looking to avoid potentially harmful PEMF products, generally you do not need to worry to much about obvious, major harm, since there seems to be very little evidence of this type of danger. If your concern is subtle harm, for example if you are EMI sensitive, then you need to be much more concerned with waveform rather than power (Gauss level). So, if this is your primary concern, I would steer away from any of the high-power systems they call “ringers”, which are often advertised as using “Spark Gap Technology!!”, because spark gap technology is very very old, cheap and crude. It predates even vacuum tubes, and generates very powerful, but very inefficient and “dirty”, electro-magnetic pulses.
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would it be fair to say that if ices pemf doesn’t help an injury or isn’t an effective treatment, then pemf of any power will not make a difference to help either?
I am not really sure about that. Different forms of PEMF may work by different mechanisms, and those may be different from ICES-PEMF. I have not seen much strong scientific evidence for this, but people really do respond differently to different things, and maybe I have missed something 
It is my strong suspicion though that very high power PEMF is usually cranked up because it has very low biophysical efficiency; only a small portion of the energy is actually biologically beneficial. So, to get an effective dose, it’s necessary to really crank it up.
That’s my current opinion on the matter, but maybe there is more to it that I am simply not grasping yet.
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Bob, you wrote:
Gauss ratings are claimed to be a measure of magnetic intensity. Is it correct that Gauss/microtesla/minitesla rate magnetic intensity?
(I’m just trying to get a handle on correct terminology. Whether or not these ratings are accurate for specific devices is a separate issue.)
The reason I started paying attention to Gauss ratings was the claim that a higher Gauss rating causes deeper tissue penetration/ biological effect.
Gauss is essentially magnetic intensity, for purposes of discussing PEMF products. So, that much is correct. The real problem we have to wrestle with is this:
How, exactly, do you measure a “Gauss”?
Look at it this way: if you go to the grocer and but a dozen oranges, you can stand right there, open the bag, and count the oranges. Everyone can verify for themselves by counting. But how about a Gauss level? How do you verify that? The average person can not do so, and PEMF marketers realize this, so they have concluded that they can say whatever they want to say about Gauss levels, and no one can really challenge them.
The result: I have measured Gauss levels of several PEMF systems, and they are never as claimed in their sales material. It is very common for PEMF manufacturers to claim Gauss levels 10 x to 100 x their actual levels. Some PEMF manufacturers are so disinterested in the real Gauss levels of their products that they are actually unable to measure Gauss from their own products(!).
I know this, because several PEMF manufacturers over the years have asked me to measure the Gauss levels of their products for them. Typically, when I ask to speak to their company scientist or engineer, they are evasive, eventually admitting they do not have an engineer of scientist on staff.
CONCLUSION: Most PEMF sellers have no engineering or scientific expertise, and they simply publish falsified and exaggerated specifications for their products. This is unregulated, and people in general cannot check and verify their claims.
But… the good news is that most modern commercial PEMF systems seem to work, because most PEMF systems on sale currently are pirated from earlier versions, so even crude copies by non-specialists can actually be beneficial. This is one of the most astounding facts about PEMF: it seems to work even under the worst cases.
MY ADVICE: You can not ever get enough accurate information from any PEMF manufacturer based on the specs in their marketing materials to make intelligent and accurate comparisons, so my best advice remains the same: talk to people you know and trust, gather their experiences and advice regarding PEMF products, try out different systems for yourself.
Unfortunately I can not police the dark world of PEMF marketing for you, so it takes some work, and in the end the question needs to be: does a particular product seem to work based on input from people you trust, not cherry-picked product testimonials, and not Gauss intensity comparisons from PEMF marketing material.
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Thanks for your response, Bob!
The unfortunate reality is that I don’t know anyone in real life who uses modern PEMF devices. I do trust our son who has 2 Bemer mats and recommends them for general well-being but finds them less than effective for specific issues, such as bone healing or back pain. He used the Rhumart system for those and found it very effective. What he told me about cost wasn’t very encouraging and the device is not offered on the open market but necessitates speaking personally to the inventor who is interesting but can talk for hours, according to our son. 
I found 3 Rhumart devices for sale in Quebec by specifically searching through Facebook in each province of Canada. Unfortunately my French is severely limited and some Quebeckers either know no more English than I know French or are actively hostile to non-French speakers. I faced the problem of persuading them to ship the product to comply with export regulations. So let’s just say I was chicken.
Do you know or know of Dr. Roland A. Drolet? If not, judging by what our son told me, you might find him interesting to talk to. I figure I know too little for an intelligent conversation on the subject. (Writing affords me the luxury of searching the internet between sentences.)
In the “How it works” section, I was most skeptical of this paragraph:
"Second, the weak directional magnetic-field impulses generated by the Rhumart Self-health system exert a driving force on red-blood cells due to the presence of magnetically sensitive molecules in those blood cells. The circulation of blood in partially blocked capillaries is greatly improved by this biophysical effect: the spectacular results obtained in cases of chronic varicose ulcers confirm this fact. "
But a little research seems to indicate that this statement is within the realm of possibility.
You are probably correct to be skeptical. That statement is almost certainly pseudo-scientific jargon.
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For me, this article hinted at the possibility:" Red Blood Cell Magnetophoresis" of red blood cells being influenced by electro-magnetism. But maybe that’s only because “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” 
Hi Bob,
What do you think of Globus PEMF devices? Are they comparable to your devices. I’d greatly appreciate your thoughts.
I’ve just bought the Globus Magnum XL Pro for £300 like new from amazon warehouse and was wondering if its worth the money for general use for inflammation, cognitive issues, muscle and ligament regeneration. It ranges from about £450 to £500 new.
SchedeTecniche_LineaMagneto_En_01_2022.indd (globusmagneto.com)
@Bob Also I’ve just realised you have a reconditioned A9 for sale at $360 including the annoying $90 delivery and custom fee charges to the UK, which is much more palatable. So it would pretty much be the same cost as the one i’ve just bought.
I’m not sure if all these settings on the one I bought are really necessary…
Well, I have not tested it directly, but I can make some detailed inferences from their technical data. It is more or less like all other knock-off PEMF devices, including the long list of specific “treatments”. This is all done without any specific scientific support for the use of their technology for suck specific applications.
Also, the duty cycles are way too long for this device to deliver the quoted Gauss levels over any area at all similar to the size of their pads… So…
It might work well, or it might not. Pretty much like all the other PEMF products on the market. I see many technical similarities to all other marketer-driven products, and some of those do work, sometimes.
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Thanks Bob, much appreciated. I might just take the risk and see how it goes…or not…hmmm. Roughly speaking how often do reconditioned A9’s get sold through your ebay shop?