Flux Health Forum

Sympathetic nervous system stuck ON - advice needed

Dear Dr Friesen,

Apologies for the very slow reply & thankyou so so much for your very thoughtful response. I hope you can appreciate it may take me quite a while to test all these devices, so I think I will start by buying the M1 ICES. I have indeed had a full check up and nothing was found, I have however been diagnosed with CFS/ME, POTS, EDS, chronic migraine & visual snow syndrome, treatment for these has done next to nothing to help my nervous system and cognitive issues. I definitely think the limbic system is playing a big part in this and so will follow your recommendation with the ICES device. If you could recommend only one other device for me to try (not including heartmath) what would you recommend?

I thought I would add that my constant hand tremor doesn’t go when I do meditation, full body progressive muscle relaxation and various breathing exercises. It’s constantly on, the amount you’d expect if you had just escaped out of a very dangerous situation, even when I’ve done said exercises mentioned above.

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Hi Jamie,
No problem on the later reply. So sorry you’re having to go through all this.

I assume you said other than HeartMath because you already use it. HRV-biofeedback would likely be the most effective device.

You also said device (as opposed to supplements, meditations, tea, etc) so I will assume you’re referring to devices and not supplements as the one thing.

Brain mapping and neurofeedback should be done with a licensed professional so I won’t include that in the next best device category.

So that leaves us with AVE, CES, and temperature biofeedback.

Temperature biofeedback is difficult to do and is a much more “advanced” biofeedback technique that will likely leave you frustrated at this point. However, it is very powerful once you’ve learned to settle your sympathetic nervous system. So keep this on the back burner for the future.

CES has a lot of research behind it. See this page for a number graphs taken from various studies specifically looking at anxiety: https://alpha-stim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Key-Summary-Anxiety.pdf AND here for a more detailed list of studies: https://www.alpha-stim.com/healthcare-professionals/research-and-reports-2-2/

HOWEVER, although I cannot say for sure, my guess is you will get the biggest response from AVE (e.g., the David Delight from MindAlive.com) using the Meditation 1 (10 Hz alpha) or Meditation 2 (7.8Hz alpha-theta border).

Below is an excerpt from my clinical website (NiagaraNeuropsychology.com) on AVE to learn more about it. Note most of the info is taken directly from MindAlive.com.

ALSO, note that there is a risk of seizures when using AVE with those who have a seizure disorder. So DO NOT use AVE if you have a history of seizures.

Audio-Visual Entrainment (AVE)* is a technique that utilizes pulses of light and sound at specific frequencies to gently and safely guide the brain into various brain wave patterns. By altering your brain wave frequencies, you have the ability to boost your mood, improve sleep patterns, sharpen your mind and increase your level of relaxation.
AVE is capable of producing situationally appropriate brain wave frequencies through the process of entrainment (the tendency of physiological processes to mirror environmental stimuli). AVE also increases cerebral blood flow (blood flow in the brain) and increases the metabolization of glucose in the brain for improved functioning of the neurons. The combined outcome of these processes is improved mental performance. It is an effective, inexpensive alternative therapy for many disorders such as anxiety, Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), PTSD, Fibromyalgia and chronic pain. AVE devices are also used successfully to boost physical performance for athletes, academic performance for students and cognitive performance for seniors.

For a comprehensive review of the psychological effects of AVE click HERE.

An important objective of entrainment is to produce a dissociative state, which is a meditation-like state of deep relaxation. It is the brain/body rehabilitative benefits produced by this deep trance-like state that makes AVE so useful for so many conditions. The dissociative state can be first observed by noticing deep and diaphragmatic breathing. Hands and feet become warmer as arteries dilate. Skin colour will become pinker as blood flow increases throughout the face and body. Blood flow will increase in the brain as well. The person will experience feelings of profound relaxation and contentment as beneficial neurotransmitters are released into the brain. When in this deep state, the brain/body’s regenerative repair chemicals (parasympathetic hormones) and stabilizing neurotransmitters such as serotonin, endorphins and dopamine are released, which restore good brain function. AVE contributes to this restoration by providing a stress-break, increasing cerebral blood flow and encouraging impaired neuronal firing which allows the brain to return to normal function.

There are a number of things that are going on when you are using AVE :

  1. Your EEG activity is being altered – As the AVE frequency changes, so does the frequency in the brain. For example, when an AVE unit is set to pulsate at 10 Hz alpha, the brain responds by producing more alpha which leads to a feeling of deep relaxation.

  2. You are being dissociated – When using AVE, you get drawn into the present moment and let go of thoughts relating to your daily hassles, hectic schedules, paying bills, worries, threats or anxieties and stop mental “chatter.” Dissociation involves a “disconnection” of self from thoughts and body awareness, as is experienced during deep meditation. Dissociation begins in four to eight minutes from properly applied AVE.

  3. Your limbic system is being stabilized – Your body is calmed, your breathing becomes rhythmic, your hands warm and your muscles relax.

  4. A number of neurotransmitters are being produced – There is some evidence that people with depressed mood have low levels of serotonin and norepinephrine. AVE boosts brain levels of serotonin and norepinephrine to improve overall well-being.

  5. Your cerebral blood flow (CBF) is being increased – CBF is associated with many forms of mental disorders, including anxiety, depression, attentional problems, behaviour disorders and impaired cognitive function. CBF tends to lower as we age and is correlated with cognitive decline. People experiencing depressed mood usually have lower levels of CBF in the left frontal and prefrontal lobes.

*Adapted from MindAlive.com

Click HERE to read more about the history of physiological mechanisms of AVE.

See the video below for more on how AVE works:

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I’d love to learn more about your device and instructions.
Critttercherub@yahoo.com

Thank you for this. I did some EEG neurofeedback before and it was helpful. I think I need to complete a 12-week course of it before. There are numerous reasons why your nervous system could be stuck on, e.g. trauma. I find meditation helpful and I grew up doing meditation.

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I’ve used the A9 on my belly and felt some movement. I don’t observe the same thing with M1. Bob and his wife said it could be that the battery is weaker on the M1.

I tried using my HRV monitor at the same time as the ICES on the belly - no difference. Is there a specific location you tried?

Many of my friends felt movement with the ICES but it’s unpleasant.

A few times I got ear acupuncture and my HRV shot up by 20 points (my baseline is around 50). It’s super relaxing, so I think that’s what I would expect from a vagus nerve activation.

Krissully,
Would you mind sending me the instructions? I currently have a broken tvns, purchased through Nemecheck Medicine. It’s several hundred dollars to replace!! I would love to try this out!
Thanks!
Amy

Need your email address to send.

amyjohig1984@gmail.com
Thanks!!

Krissully, is this similar to the instructions you have? tVNS Auricular Electrodes Assembly Guide.pdf (240.3 KB)

Hello Crittercherub,

I also have ME/CFS. I just purchased the M1 to see if it can help with my severe co-morbid insomnia. So, you use the M1 in addition to a mat? May I ask what kind of mat you use and why you use it when sleeping?

Also, has the M1 helped you in any way with CFS symptoms, such as brain fog, fatigue, flu-like symptoms, etc.

By the way, I’m so glad cranial sacral therapy is helping you! I would love to do it but it’s very expensive in my area.

Thank you!

Have you tried mindful meditation and breath exercise to s-l-o-w down and filter the brain chatter that sets the pattern and motion at which your brain reacts to stimuli? This self awareness, along with natural pain management processes, ie, PEMF in particular here, ease these “screaming” reactions and allows me to parasympathetically respond with greater and greater ease. This calmed state is in itself pain relieving. Anyhoo, works for me. Feel better! :blush:

So sorry. Crazy year. Haven’t checked in for months. Yes those instructions work, however it also works to just use both clips, red on inner tragus and black on earlobe. Am sending instructions just in case I did not originally.

Hello,
I just joined the forums here today after ordering an M1 this afternoon. I’m trying to find help for my fiancee, and like the idea of tVNS. I’d love to get the instructions if you’d be willing to send them to me!
tomlange1@yahoo.com

I would also love to learn how to build one of these. Here’s my email: jonathan.vau@gmail.com
Thank you!

this likely isn’t the place to get detailed instructions on diy building pemf devices if that is what you’re looking for. you will have better luck searching the web for instructions. here’s one such site that you can access such details of a basic pemf device:
https://www.aurorasky.net/html/projects.html (view left nav of site)

@OptimalHealth, I think the request is for how to make a tVNS device which @krissully was sending to those who requested it. It has been very helpful to my family. In fact, just finished a 30minute tVNS session. Of course for PEMF, I trust Dr. Bob Dennis and his ICES PEMF devices :wink:

Hi @jvaughan: I’m not aware of the details krissully provides, however I found this:
https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Transcutaneous-Vagus-Nerve-Stimulator/

Hope that helps!

Hi Krissuly Thanks for your great post and invitation to share. I’d also love to learn more about your device and instructions. jfbriefer@gmail.com

Hi krissully, I would appreciate receiving the instructions too:

Blair.walter@gmail.com

Many thanks

Cold showers are a simple and highly effective way to reset the sympathetic nervous system. Check out Wim Hoff’s material. From my own experience I can say that cold shower therapy and NIR sauna therapy (heat shock proteins) are both amazing for resetting. Also a simple 4-7-8 breathing technique done as a regular practice can do wonders.

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