Can any of these products help with bone growth. I have had a hip replacement and my bones have not grown to support the implant. I have since found out I also have osteoporosis.
I have a model M1, please suggest settings or if I need to use a different model or accessories.
thank you!
Hello Mikayes! It was when I learned that there are PEMF devices approved for bone growth by the FDA that I got interested in PEMF for knee arthrofibrosisâmy nephew had a bad fracture and his orthopedic surgeon prescribed a PEMF device for that. So, it is well established that PEMF may help bone growth but whether the M1 device will do so I cannot say for sure. It dramatically helped my arthrofibrosis which can literally cripple you. My guess is that the M1 can help bone growth but that is speculative. I would use the Omni 8 setting at an intensity of about 12 or 13 and if that caused twitching I would dial it down. Best of luck!
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PEMF is supposed to be good at helping non union fractures as well has overall healing. I am not sure what setting that should be used but Dr Dennis I am sure will be able to offer some enlightenment. As a side note there are Medicare/insurance approved Bone stimulator devices. You have to overcome any Dr hessitation since some seem resistant to prescribe. I had one ordered for my 90+ year old Mother after she had hip surgery and had some bone issues. The Dr was surprised as every two weeks I would take her in for xrays that showed the growth. I am not sure that it wsa using PEMF since it appeared to me that it was using a low frequency vibration. It was battery operated. It required a gel to place a transducer in a weighted sleeve to have contact with the skin. The batteries are not replaceable as they want you to buy a new one after so many treatments ( another device that since it is categorized medical sets itself up for replacement for more money) It can not be replaced without MD involvement but is covered under many insurances. It requires Dr document the bone is not healing on its own. It costs the insurance company approx $5000. Hope this helps.
Thank you! I appreciate your help.
We have some published, per-reviewed data suggesting very positive effects on bone growth and regeneration:
https://www.josam.org/josam/article/view/27
I also have been given a lot of feedback (anecdotal) from clinicians and users related to orthopedic injuries and implant engraftment. My opinion is that PEMF can be very helpful for this. Unfortunately the devices with FDA-approval are âfrozen in timeâ, because with approval comes essentially a halt in the innovation. So, effectively, FDA-approved PEMF devices for orthopedic use are based on technology that is about 40 - 50 years old. Basically think âdisco-ball techâ.
A lot has improved since then. Modern PEMF technology is much better in my opinion.
With that said, taking everything into account that I believe I know and can reasonably support with reliable and repeated information from many sources, I would suggest that since you have an M1, consider this approach:
Start with the Omni-8 pulse pattern, but after a week or two you might also try Alpha Wave, or Schumann 4. There is no magic pattern, but changing the pattern from time to time seems to help (by mitigating habituation).
An intensity setting of 11 to 13 would be OK, especially for deeper tissues.
Coils: Try on alternate days stacked (bumpy-to-bumpy side) or coils on opposite sides (bumpy sides away from the skin).
I suggest using the device as long as possible, every day, at least 6 to 8 hours per day, but might be better to use it at night too if possible.
It would be helpful if you could write back in a few weeks (or sooner!) to let us know how it works for you, and any insights or suggestions you have.
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Thank you Bob for your help. I have had the M1 for over a year, wearing it some each week only using the Omni -8 pattern. I feel like it has helped with my pain but not with my bone growth. I had a hip replacement in May 2018 and my bones did not grow to support the implant, I have constant pain and a recent x-ray showed the bone breaking down more. This is complicated by a diagnosis of osteoporosis. I am taking supplements, doing weight-bearing exercise etc. I am small boned so another surgery may not be an option. I appreciate any additional advice you may have. Do you think I should invest in a larger device?
thanks again
MLK
Please make sure that you have a metal test done to make sure that you are not allergic to the metal in your hip. There is a class action lawsuit. Donât assume it is osteoporosis since many people do not have this problem despite having osteoporosis. The metal allergy test is called, âMelisa test.â
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what kind of supplements are you taking? collagen peptides, magnesium, boron are just some of the supplements the body becomes deficienct as we age⌠perhaps you may still be deficient and that is why there isnât been substantial repair to that area (?)
I donât know that a larger device would help you, but it might. The problem is that the cost is high. Can you get access to reasonably priced clinical treatments to see if that starts to help? Could you try borrowing a device from someone if you know someone who has one, before you spend the money?
I would just hate for you to spend the money and not get a benefit. This is a common and very difficult problem.
I know professional sport teams who used commercial grade pemf devices to help their players heal broken bones. They do not state it grows bones. Only that it helps in healing them. I cannot find anywhere where there is actual documented information that shows pemf grows bone. I had dexa done before pemf and after pemf. My dexa scores did not get better. That shows it did not work for me as far as bone growth. My scores did not get worse so I will say it helps in that regard. Simple way to find out if pemf works for you is to get a dexa test before you start and then another a year later. If your scores improved then it worked.
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Hi! Iâm new here and I saw this post and am wondering if you have a recommendation for someone with osteoporosis who does not yet own any PEMF (or other type of device) for treating osteoporotic bones?
I just found you a couple days ago and I am so glad I did. I have been overwhelmed for months trying to figure out if PEMF is legit, if it can help me, if it can harm me, and what companies, if any, and devices to trust with my somewhat fragile health. Itâs really a jungle out there when it comes to trying to figure this all out!
I am 51 and have 3 rare autoimmune disorders in my liver, as well as rheumatoid arthritis, and the osteoporosis caused and exacerbated by the liver disease.
Because I have to be cautious with my liver, I need something to help with the bone loss, and the RA pain that wonât require harsh pharmaceuticals. If PEMF were to be able to also help my liver in any way, that would be a bonus. But what I definitely donât want is to harm my liver any further. And certainly not with a $12,000 PEMF machine that I donât really understand and which seems like it is either exactly what my bones need, or far more than the rest of me needs, or both.
I want the strongest, most effective device I can get for my bones. If itâs a $12,000 machine, so be it. My mom also had liver disease, and consequent osteoporosis. When she fell and broke a shoulder and a wrist at the same time, I knew it was going to be bad news. Sadly, as statistics predicted, she was deceased within 5 months of those bone breaks. She hadnât even been retired a full year. I inherited her unspent retirement fund and I can think of nothing more fitting to spend it on than something that might help keep me from suffering a similar fate. I feel confident sheâd want that, but sheâd definitely want me to do my due diligence and make sure what I was buying wasnât a scam device and wasnât going to hurt me.
So, here I am trying to do that due diligence. Again, Iâm thankful to have found such a great forum to learn and discuss what PEMF can, canât, should, and shouldnât do.
Iâm grateful for any advice or tips you, Bob, or anyone else, has to offer a total noob.
Thanks! ~ Chris
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Hi Chris,
I honestly do not have enough data, either published or anecdotal, to draw a firm conclusion on PEMF and osteoporosis. Some data is suggestive, but it is not strongly suggestive in my opinion.
Overall I think this is the case, not just as my personal opinion. In his recent comprehensive book on the many clinical uses of PEMF, Bill Pawluk MD discusses osteoporosis in uncharacteristically unenthusiastic terms:
âPower Tools for Healthâ, W. Pawluk, M.D., 2017, pages 143-145).
He cites the few suggestive studies on osteoporosis and PEMF, but he ends up combining osteoporosis with osteopenia, just to be able to have enough information together to make a statement about it. And all he can say is:
âPEMFs appear to be helpful for people with osteopenia or osteoporosis but cannot be relied upon as a sole treatment.â
He goes on to say âI strongly recommend that they [PEMFs] start to be used when osteopenia is diagnosed before it progresses to the more severe osteoporosis.â
I have known Bill Pawluk for many years, and he is absolutely on top of the literature for PEMF as well as clinical practice. I would have to say that this is the least enthusiastic endorsement of the use of PEMF for any medical condition that I have ever heard from Bill. So it is my impression, and I could be wrong, that Bill sees very little benefit from just the use of PEMF for osteoporosis either clinically or scientifically.
So in my opinion, PEMF may help you, but it may not, and it would require diligent self-experiment to find out if it would be helpful for you. I wish I could tell you more.
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this reminds of recent material i found and learned from others about helping with osteoporosis:
also explains my personal experience with how i noticed a nice collagen boost and system wide benefits taking silicon rich diatomaceous earthâŚ
i believe supplementing with silicon, boron, vitamin d have helped in synergistic ways ⌠i donât have a summarized format to share, but I have had personal experience that adds to promising anecdotal evidence.
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TEENAGE LEG DISCREPANCY - BONE GROWTH
Hi there
I have been reading through and hoping to find info specifically to my sonâs case, sorry if I havenât seen it.
I bought the C5 and M6 in hope that we could stimulate growth in his one leg that is 3 cm shorter than the other.
My logic is if PEMF acts like nutrition for the body and or stimulation, it would encourage bone growth while my son is still growing. He is 15 and a slow grower to begin with. The leg discrepancy is causing back pain as you can imagine because he loves playing sports, like and all sports, it is frustrating him when he canât. Who needs that especially in 2022?
Our protocol so far rotates between his back and leg NIGHTLY. Trying to get 7 hours. The other while he is doing homework for 2-3 hours before bed.
For the leg, we put 4 around knee , front, back and sides hoping to get the growth plates, and 4 around ankle. The hip seems to be a bit trickier as you can imagine. I have tried OMNI 8 AT 3, 12 AND 9
A9 AT 3, 12 AND 9
SCHMUAN 1 AT 9 SO FAR
We have done the same on the back for his pain.
The reason why I rotate programs is because I read to do it so the body doesnât adapt to it. We have only had it for a few weeks.
If there are any suggestions, please reply. Looking for advice. Thanks.
Bob, thank you so much for this post on stimulating bone growth. My spouse age 67 recently fractured the neck of his humerus - upper arm bone - from a fall on a steep mountain trail. While itâs fractured through the bone, thankfully there is âminimal displacementâ, and the orthopedist says surgery is not indicated. Heâs using a sling 24/7. We started using the C5 a few days after the injury, and now find the A9a more convenient. trying to use your protocol above. I do notice much more bruising today, which may be just the ups and downs, or even the lighting, however I suspect the Meriva curcumin and Boswelia, that while great for inflammation, learned they can affect clotting. discontinuing both for time being.
QuestionâŚ. We quickly ramped up Joeâs time with ICES with no obvious deleterious effects. Hope thatâs OK. His pain and swelling are much better 2 weeks now after injury. Like I mentioned bruising is worse today - can ICES affect that one way or other?
Any suggestions much appreciated. Thanks so much!
Pain and swelling should definitely continue to get better, but for bruising I have less information. But from everything I know, bruising resolves itself very well as the tissue recovers.
Thanks so much Bob. I was also impressed with the clinical studies published demonstrating the therapeutic support of PEMF in bone, tissue repair.
When I broke my elbow, ICES PEMF accelerated what I would call the âsurfacing of the trauma to the bone and ligamentâ which increased the visible bruising but then it also went away altogether within a week. This is just my own experience and way of relating to what I saw.
Actually, @TajD brings out an interesting observation. I have seen the same thing: when using ICES-PEMF, the bruising looks different, maybe because the swelling is much less. It appears quickly and seems pretty bad, but is not painful and then it clears up in just a couple of days.
additional comment added one day later:
To me the bruising looks like a darker, more serious hematoma, but it is evidently not as serious as it looks, it is typically not painful, and seems to clears up quickly.
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Thanks so much. This is helpful. The bruising looks better, and he is feeling stronger, even taking walks in the park. But gotta watch for those roots! Thankfully, orthopedist said there was âminimal dislocationâ, so surgery not neededâŚ