Spinal nerve impingement > muscle atrophy

[jwilkes]

I’ve had my C5 since June '19 but got waylaid by a neurologist at Johns Hopkins who suspected I might have a motor neuron disease, specifically ALS which took my mother. After much genetic testing I was told it was 'very unlikely’ but no other helpful advice except for disc replacement at C3-C7 requiring cervical spine fusion.

The muscle atrophy of my left shoulder and left biceps has been progressing since 2016 but there was no pain until Fall 2019. I had been discouraged by the prospect of trying a C5 protocol for 6 months and seeing no result, and having to decide to try longer or try another protocol, but I finally decided to try Omni 8 at Level 8-10, taped coils to the back and front of my shoulder, ran it while I slept, and most of the pain which had been slowly increasing was 80-90% gone in 2-3 days. I didn’t know if the pain signals were being masked or if actual repair was happening, but I stopped for about a week and the pain was still gone.

I started doing physical therapy recently and I’ve had some intermittent shoulder pain, possibly due to over-exertion, or further deterioration. The muscle atrophy was initially diagnosed as degenerating intervertebral discs pressing on my spinal cord but was more recently diagnosed as cervical radiculopathy, the discs pushing on individual nerves as they exit the spinal cord and pass horizontally through the foraminal passageways in the vertebrae on their path to the upper body. Disc replacement would again require spine fusion.
I also consulted with Dr.P in MD, and he said I would probably need an $8K-$15K machine to reach into my spine which would be a financial hardship.

So I’m going to try my C5 on my spine to see if the nerve impingement can be reduced. I also consulted with a chiropractor who uses a Pulse Pro XL, a $30K machine touted as being the most powerful PEMF system available, and it did make my entire body twitch, but then I read your response to 57yarder’s questions about treating spasticity, nerve and muscle damage where you said that more intensity is not necessarily better, and to try turning it down and/or shorter treatment sessions.

So here are my questions for anybody who has had success treating a similar condition anywhere on the spine, or nerve damage anywhere:

1. Is ICES actually different from ‘traditional’ PEMF, which is presumably what Pulse and similar systems use? Apparently the Pulse transmits over 1000 Gauss, but is it possible to compare the two technologies?
2. Would you still suggest trying Omni8, Schumann 4, and Alpha wave? Does habituation of cell response to a fixed frequency still seem to be a possibility?
3. Would you suggest I use my 2x2 arrays, singly or stacked on my spine, and does the orientation matter? The 2x2 will fit my spine more easily in a ‘diamond’ orientation with one coil on top, two horizontally in the middle and one on the bottom.
4. Or use one 2x2 on the back of my neck and one on the front? Or would you suggest your new Deep Field Coils, and if so, oriented across my spine? Ideally I would treat disc impingement from C3 to C7, but I may have to alternately treat at 2-3 positions.

Part of my challenge is the difficulty of keeping the coils in place as I toss and turn while sleeping. I initially used masking tape to affix the single coils to a tight t-shirt covered by another shirt which worked but it’s time-consuming to remove and replace the coils to wash the shirt. I’m now experimenting with using plastic snaps to create cloth pockets on a shirt which can be unsnapped to remove the coils. Keeping the coils on my neck will be more challenging.

I’m also starting testing with my Brain Gauge, as one spine surgeon suggested I could have some sort of brain disfunction. Seems unlikely but my brain could use some improvement, especially stress/cortisol reduction.

Thank you for your interest and patience to help folks heal themselves at a very reasonable price!

[Bob]

This is very interesting, thanks. A few comments:

Pain masking: I have great concerns that this is the default way that mainstream medicine views the treatment of all forms of pain: block it. But all of the evidence I have seen for high efficiency (low energy) PEMF is that it seems to deal with the mechanism that causes the pain. And the fact that you have seen a reduction for a week after discontinuing use is pretty subjective: it is not blocking pain (the pain would return in just a few hours), it seems to be promoting healing at the source of the pain (a durable solution, unlike “masking” or blocking).

I am not so sure about the effects of the much higher power forms of PEMF though. With a great deal of unneeded energy, it may be both masking and having other effects. This has been less well studied, I think. But it is one potential problem with the more crude, ultra-high power PEMF products.

I disagree with Dr. P.: You would not need an ultra-powerful system to “reach into your spine”. The depth of penetration of ICES-PEMF systems is easily able to reach throughout the spine. I know that he knows this, we have discussed it in the past, so I wonder why he would say that to you.

Since you already have a C5, the best way to do this is:
1- Stacked coils (bumpy-side to bumpy-side), placed directly over the most severely damaged area, or the spot with the most pain. With a C5, you could potentially do this to several locations along the spine simultaneously.
2- Deep field coils, which we sell, but they take two output ports on the C5, so you can only use at most 2 deep field coils at the same time.

I have used this technology to treat my own nerve impingement, and it works very well for me, so I expect you should get good results. Over time, consider reducing the power, since there will be some tissue recovery over time, and I find that as this happens, “less is more”.

My answers to your questions:
1: ICES-PEMF is just a very refined and efficient form of PEMF based on inductive mechanisms and direct biological measurements of tissue physiology that I made while I was at Harvard-MIT and U-Michigan. Comparing traditional PEMF to ICES-PEMF would be like comparing Mystery Meat to grass-fed beef. Both are food (sort of), but one is much more refined and probably much better for you and the planet overall. But Mystery Meat is a good option, I suppose, if the only possible alternative is starvation.

2- Yes. I use all three and alternate between them. I still have not seen any major indications of habituation, but I do find that changing patterns every now and again does seem to reinvigorate the effects, sometimes. I think it is a wise practice.

3- For your spine, I think you would find that stacked coils (as above) or deep field coils (as above) would be much more effective that 2x2 coil arrays, which are intended more for superficial injuries.

4- When doing things on opposite sides, I definitely recommend the use of individual coils, bumpy-sides out on both sides, not 2x2 coil arrays.

I have sewn coils to t-shirts and bandages (ace bandages, for example). It works well I think. If you sew in pockets, then you can just remove the coils easily for laundering.

BrainGauge use will definitely give you some important insight into your brain function. And more importantly, it will give you reliable feedback to see whether or not it is improving, or deteriorating, based on the things you might be trying.

[potatop]

I’ve been using my M1 with side by side coils on my neck most nights. I find I sleep much more soundly. I believe this is due to less pain in my shoulder area that usually bothers me only at night (it makes me toss and turn).

I’ve rigged up several shirts in an attempt to find a way to keep the coils in place. I settled on using plastic snaps, with sewn sheaths for the coils. There is still the problem of the cables getting “stuck” when I turn over at night. The only “solution” I’ve found is to sandwich the cables/coils between two garments.

The shirt I’m using has the coils attached to the “inside” of the collar. So I usually need an undershirt beneath it to avoid the cables sticking to my skin and perhaps breaking over night if pulled too hard.

I attached a photo of the shirt. There is a hole cut into the breast pocket for the cable to connect through to the M1 itself.

The coils snap off so you can wash the shirt.

You can also move the coils individually to additional points of attachment, as long as the cables still reach the pocket with the M1.

Oh, and I use a “collar extender” (try amazon) so I can button the topmost button without strangling myself! (Keeps the coils snug against the back of my neck).

Hope this helps.

[Bob]

This is excellent, thanks. This is what people should do for their own individual needs.

[jwilkes]

Sorry for my slow response; I very much appreciate your prompt and thorough response. I just received two Deep Field coils and I’m working on how to wear them, ideally while sleeping, unless your experience is that 7-8 hours might be too long, or that I should opt for a lower power level than Level 10 which I used overnight with single coils on the front and back of my shoulder. I will also try alternating among the C5 protocols.

As far as using my Deep Field coils on my neck, assuming the most effective orientation of the coils is laterally across my spine, it seems that the DF coils are a little flexible, and I’m wondering if that has any effect on their effectiveness or durability.

I am a vegetarian, occasional fish, but I liked your Mystery Meat analogy and greatly appreciate the time you took to answer my questions.
Jeffrey Wilkes

[jwilkes]

Thank you very much for your input. I’m basically working on a similar setup.
I just purchased two of the new Deep Field Coils; my challenge is that I have to position them pretty high on my neck to reach C3-C7 vertebrae,
which may not work even with my shirt collar turned up and joined at the front. The DF coils are two pairs arrayed side-by-side, so positioning them across my cervical spine doesn’t conform to my neck very well. Whether I should put the DF coils on both the front on back of my neck is another question, may just have to try and see.
Thanks again, any suggestions appreciated!

[Bob]

Well, physically it works like a side-by-side coil, but with about 65% more power (and deeper tissue penetration). So you would use it the same way you might use coils side-by-side.

They work exceptionally well for me, if I have a really sore lower back. The pain is gone in 15-20 minutes; from pain level of 10 down to a 1 or 2 usually. I wear it with the coils across (NOT along) the spine. In other anatomical locations, the coil orientation is less well defined. I usually have to experiment with it a bit to find what is best for any particular location and injury, but there don’t seem to be many hard-and-fast rules: people vary in how they respond. So ,u advice in general is that side-by-side coils (and deep field coil assemblies) should always be placed across the spine. But in other locations, you should experiment with different coil orientations to find what works best for you.

A starting intensity of 10 is about right. I usually use 9 or 10, and with deep field coils, the effects are pretty fast, usually.

I am glad you appreciated the analogy. The mystery meat analogy is remarkably apt when it comes to comparing different PEMF products (and quality, and safety). I could go on at length with the nuances, but I will spare everyone another rant. Just let it suffice that some people will get exactly my meaning without further comment.

[Bob]

I sometimes use the Deep Field coils very high on my spine, at the base of the skull really. This is primarily for my stroke recovery strategy (my first stroke was cerebellar). The way I do it is to place it on a pillow, lie back on it, and adjust as necessary. I only do this for an hour or two at most (usually less time), so holding it to the back of my head this way is not difficult at all. But I never walk around with it this way, only lying down. Maybe that is helpful.

[potatop]

The only other idea that comes to mind would be a head covering like a balaklava. You might be able to keep the coils high up on the neck that way. You could have problems if the material is thin and stretchy however, as the weight of the coils + gravity could easily alter their positioning.

I tried one balaklava from amazon and it was comfortable but very thin material. I didn’t attempt to attach any plastic snaps. Not sure whether it would be easy to sew on to the material, or is it too thin and fragile? Maybe a winter balaklava (if there is such a thing ) Worth a look but might be a dead end…

[Bob]

I have also used a cheap-o head band, the ones you can buy by the dozen on Amazon. They easily stretch to go around your head anywhere, and you can cut open the seam to insert the coils. Mine works well. Looks cheesy, but I like it
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078JKMZWP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[jwilkes]

So I’ll try a Deep Field coil across my neck. Is it OK to flex the coil assembly slightly, maybe 15% from flat, to confirm somewhat to the back of my neck? I’m going to try an elastic cloth to keep it in place.

I’ve been successful at reducing pain in my shoulder by placing single coils on the front and back of my shoulder, but I don’t know what is actually taking place physically - whether it’s pain masking or repair - and whether reversing/repairing the disc impingement on my radiating spine nerves at approx. C5-C7 will take more and/or longer treatment, even assuming the long-standing nerve damage is repairable, and if so, whether long-standing muscle atrophy is reversible. Do you think overnight (7-8 hrs) is too long with the deep coils, or is just a matter of experimenting in small steps?

I’m consulting with a stem cell surgeon who has at least allowed that ICES may help the regenerative process, even though he says PEMF therapy is ‘controversial’. The reality is that stem cell treatment is $8-9K per treatment, can be 2-3 treatments, may or may not be successful, so for now I’m going to try the deep coils.

[jwilkes]

My nerve damage is approximately C5-C7, a little lower (I think) than your cerebellar damage, so rather than a headband I’m going to try a 4" wide elastic band around my neck. It’s certainly a challenge to keep it in the right place and in contact; may have to just find an hour to lie on it on a pillow. I’ve considered trying a battery pack to be able to at least do desk work during treatment, but maybe that’s not realistic.

[jwilkes]

Thanks, I’m going to try a 4" wide elastic band around my neck for now; not sure I could handle a winter balaclava in August, but I’m not ruling out anything! The coils need to be sort of at the base of my neck up to about halfway up - it will be an experiment!

[OptimalHealth]

you might find this more comfortable around your neck

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000078CUB

than a rubber band…

[Bob]

Sure the coils are designed to flex. Just be reasonable, and it will be OK.

Pain masking is exceedingly unlikely, so it probably arises from a reduction of inflammation and irritation at the source of the pain, IMO.

Any amount of tissue damage will take time to repair. But observations, amny done by orthopedic surgeons, suggest that healing of musculoskeletal tissues with ICES-PEMF will be about 2 to 3 times faster than typical healing rate.

I would experiment, and definitely try medium or even low (7-8) intensities if using it while sleeping 7-8 hours.

[JonN]

JWilkes,
I have a similar situation and have found a solution that works for me. I got the following knee brace:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0734X3478/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I used 3M Micropore surgical tape to tape the coils to the inside surface of the brace and included a short length of the wire inside the tape so the flex point will not be right at the coil. I leave the coils taped “permanently”, but when I need to retape I move that flex point to a new part of the wire. I used the same surgical tape to tape a sock around the brace and cut a hole in the sock far enough from the toe for the A9 to tuck completely into the sock. The brace is in the right place for the coils for me, but the coils could be placed on an extension with the right flexibility/rigidity to move the coils up or down. The black “tail” attached to the bottom of the sock is to keep the A9 from flopping around me when I bend over and twist. The black material is athletic wrap and has just the right amount of stretch so I can tuck it inside my pants and it prevents any flopping around. In cooler weather the sock can go inside a shirt which prevents “flopping” and if perspiration is a problem the sock could go into a plastic bag secured with a twist tie. I leave this on 24X7 for several days at a time. I also have another arrangement for my lower back that I leave on 24X7 and a third that I leave on my knee, so I alternate between the three. All three are left with the coils taped in place and with strain relief taken care of by the tape.
/Jon

[JonN]

I just realized that this may be confusing. While this is a knee brace, I use it around my neck for cervical spine and it is both comfortable and easy to take on and off without looking at it. I can also twist it around to change the battery without taking the brace off. It is easy to adjust it just snug enough so it stays in place without strangulation (RBF for the brain!).

[Bob]

This looks pretty cool to me. It also allows you to make changes to zero in on exactly the coil placement that will work best for you individually.

[jwilkes]

Thank you Jon, sorry for my slow response. I’m studying your setup and thinking about using the knee brace. For now I’ve taped a Deep Field Coil to the outside of the turned-up collar of an old dress shirt - it works OK, but ultimately I’d like to replace the tape with plastic snaps securing a cloth pocket with the coils(s) inside so I can remove the coils for washing, but your solution may ultimately be easier.

[jwilkes]

Thank you for your suggestion, sorry for my slow response. I did purchase some Velcro; it’s very secure but I was trying to find a wider self-adhesive material so it would spread out the pressure on the front of my neck to reduce the feeling of choking, but I’m continuing to experiment.