Flux Health Forum

Sleeping with a device

I have a C5 and I’ve been experimenting with different ways to be attached at night. My husband is away, so it’s the perfect time to see what works.

But I’m finding that everything I’ve tried so far disrupts my sleep (even more than usual). I’ve tried:

  • hands in oven mitts (for hands and wrists); one or both
  • knee wrapped with tape and cords placed so I can move the other leg more or less freely

Are there better ways to do this to minimise sleep disruption?

Dr Karen,

I don’t know if this will help you, but I use the 2 x 2 arrays at night and don’t attach it because those either side can face the body, so I just put it near and turn the power up if I am doing something like a knee.

I turn the power down if I am doing too close to the ears.

Deb – I love this idea! But how “near” is near? I was going to try the arrays under my knees but I wiggle around to relieve pressure points for pain.

Thanks for all your quick and useful responses – you rock! :smile:

Dr. Karen,

That is a good question. Unfortunately, I don’t have a good answer.

That matters very much because you are trying to figure out something for cartilage growth, so you need a good solution. I find the deep coils do the same thing as the array - again because there is no need to have the proper side pointing toward the knees. Those are softer.

So you sleep with a pillow or wedge under your legs at all? Or on an adjustable bed where the knees are positioned at the part where the bed bends? Seems like there might be a way to have the knees not wriggle as far away.

Hi Dr. Karen, I also use the array for sleep and far more importantly the mat(4 by 4 array). Clearly the mat in my opinion is great for lying on and maintaining the coil alignment.

I place it directly under my lower back in the ,“dantien” area. At a midrange frequency using the C5.

I may place a single array using an m1 on my upper spinal point inbetween my shoulders on either a low intensity gamma then delta program or just low intensity delta.

Do you feel hot or swetty?
Do you fall asleep easily than awake durring the night?

Which intensities have you experimented with?

If the problem is that the stimulation itself is irritating you, the thing that works for most people is to reduce the intensity. Most people do not realize this, but most of the time, less is more with ICES-PEMF.

Keep in mind that ICES-PEMF is about 500X more inductively efficient than most other PEMF products**, so it takes very little energy to get good effects.

Just as an experiment, try this:

Just keep reducing the power until it does not interfere with your sleep. Then, stick with that intensity level for a while.

I did exactly this a month ago for my left hip/CRPS, and I am very happy to report that by reducing the intensity I had no interference with my sleep, and much better results on my left hip pain, which now, is almost entirely gone (yay!) after using it this way every night for about a month.


** I am not exaggerating, it is really about 500x more inductively efficient than typical PEMF products. I can show you the math.

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@bettereveryday - No, I don’t sleep with anything. it’s not so much that I need a certain positioning for my knees as with the arthritis, I need to keep moving or everything gets stiff. So I’m on one side fetaled, then on my stomach with knees straight, the other side with one knee up for a bit, them maybe fetal again, then on my back for a bit, back to the side…all night. Knees go up and down, depending on stiffness.

Thanks @PEMFenthusiast2, I’m using it while sleeping, but not for sleeping . THe 2x2 mat might be a good alternative so that at least some of the time a knee is on the mat. The oven mitts for my hands kind of works – maybe just a matter of getting more used to it.

I do get hot at night, most of the night, but that’s true even without the PEMF.

Yes, I fall asleep easily, then wake up at approximately the end of each sleep cycle (ie…, ~90 min). With the PEMF attached to me, I am waking more often – kind of like when I have to wake up early for a flight or something - I’m waking every 30 min or so.

The intensities I’ve used range from 6 at the low end to 12 for a bit last night, but this felt like too much so I turned it back down to 10. It’s not the sound, though, that’s bugging me – it’s being “tethered” and having to pay attention to where the wires are and whether I’m still attached.

What are you thinking? Thanks again –

As to @PEMFenthusiast2, it’s not the sound - I can sleep through almost any sounds and the gentle clicking is nothing. :wink: It’s the “tethering” that I have to “pay attention” to.

Good news on your hip! What intensity did you wind up at, out of curiosity?

I think that the solution to your problem could be simpler than you think.

As non-engineering medically educated people, we are probably not as adapt to what an engineering mind would consider very simple and easy.

When Dr. Bob made that pad it was a breakthrough for me. I felt no longer constricted by the wires and it also felt far more comfortable!!

You can buy a mat online at micro-pulse for roughly $250.
That is in my subjective view, far easier and better than trying to construct something similar.

You could probably wrap the mat around your knee and surrounding leg parts w/o feeling as constricred.

Another possible solution is use an M1 array (4) coil to put under the knee.
It might probably not be nearly as comfortable, but their will be far less wires.

It is in my case, very time consuming to untagle all these wires in a C5 with regular coils.

Hope that helps Dr. Karen.

@DrKaren, thinking about your knees, you may be interested in the experience of a medical doctor/microbiologist from New Zealand who tried helminthic therapy - purely out of interest - and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

“But what astounded and gratified me is that the arthritic pain in my knees vanished…”

There are numerous papers on the effects of helminths and their excretory/secretory products on arthritis in this list of the research.

https://helminthictherapywiki.org/wiki/index.php/Helminthic_therapy_research

And here’s a general introduction to the topic.

Same problem here when sleeping with the device and coils on my body, fixed with adhesive tape.

It gets a lot better when I attach wires and device to my body with adhesive tape. However its still irritating when turning around in bed because I have to take care to not pull on the wires of the coils and so rip the coils away from the skin.

Using M1 the cable easily unplugs the device with only a little pulling, so I fix the cable to the plugging with adhesive tape.

Using A9 the cable doesnt unplug the device so easily, I dont need a fixing to the plugging with adhesive tape using A9.

Maybe you can try a compression sleeve. Get a a mild one or get one slightly bigger so it’s not too snug but keeps the coils in place when you move around. Or maybe you can wear thigh-high stockings to hold it in place. For your hands and wrist maybe you can try those wraps or half gloves MMA boxers wear, I think they’re called speed wraps.

Exactly! And worrying a bit about pulling the device (C5 for me) off the table where it sits.

I can get everything attached enough to stay on, but my body is “aware” of the tether and care needed. Maybe She will just get used to it with more practice and success…?

My hands are good in my oven mitts, so I can easily take them out when I need to use a hand. I think more wrapped up would be even more frustrating!

But thanks for the suggestions. :+1:

Thanks @Jayess - I don’t know if I would be brave enough or if there is anyone here that could follow along with me from a health perspective, but how interesting, eh?

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Hi Dr. Karen

I still struggle with “tithering” , although far less than before.
Subjectively , a PEMF mattress- either partial or full body seems to work well for many people w/o the wires getting tangled, being pulled out, or making the body uncomfortable.

My initial PEMF experience was the BEMER mattress, which I rented and which I did enjoy sleeping on.

My goal was to find a way to make a comfortable PEMF mattress using PEMF-ICES.

I used Tai Chi/acupuncture(my limited knowledge) where to optimally place coils. My approach was to try hit some of the Tai chi Energy gates to relax my body.

I did achieve partial success with:

  1. the small mattress which I attach to the C5 and apply to my lower spine area. The C5 is placed on a chair, next to my bed, while the long coils allows flexibility to where I lay on my bed.
    A) I can place the mattress on my back or inbetween a shirt and my PJ top.
    B) Coil does not come out like it did when I used 4 seperate array coils.
    C) Wires do not tangle with the mattress as they do with the small mattress.
    D) When I used single coils and strapped them, I was uncomfortable, felt restricted and wore out some coils that way.

  2. Using an array (2 by 2 coil on M1) on the upper spine

  3. I have unsuccesfully so far, tryed using another array coil undder my pillow.

  4. I used an array coil under my left knee to experiment. AS I thankfully at present have no knee pain, I used other subjective indicators. It seemed to work well. The array is smooth, unlike the other coils which I find disruptive to my sleep. I also tried placing the array under a covering which seemed to work very well. FYI: I seem to remain in the same area of the bed durring sleep and often awake in the same spot that I went to sleep.
    Note: I was not succesful strapping arrays to my knees.

  5. If my understanding is correct, the coils can reach 4 inches maybe 5 inches above or below where placed.
    I have only used single arrays below my knee. It only covered 1 knee.

  6. Suggestion: One could experiment by gently wrapping it in a comfortable towl or maybe an item of clothing, perhaps inbetween a few stockings or socks?
    One could also have it perhaps half an inch from the skin to avoid discomfort.

Problem areas:

  1. My C5 wire does not fit smuggly into the connector. (By placeing the C5 on a chair next to me bed-I overcame this issue.
  2. My C5 can only attack one partial mattress which only covers the area of four array coils packed tightly next to each other. (I used 1 , now 2 M1’s attached by a long chord to expose various parts of the body.

Future innovation suggestion for DR. Bob regarding the C5.

  1. an improved C5 with 8 or 12 or 16 outlets could help attach , two, three or four mattress’s to a single machine w/o having to buy an additional C5 for each extra mattress.

  2. An outlett on the C5 which is deeper and allows for a tighter fit.

  3. A pad that is circular which fits around the head - for use durring day-time hours. THis might mean designing coils which fit the circular part of the head, more efficiently then aquare coils. (The idea could be to use an anti-inflammatory device to cover as much of the brain as possible.

Thank-you Dr. Bob and Mrs Dennis for the pad, excellent customer support,
the wonderful forum in addition to grumpy science and the series with Aaron.

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Is the tither due to the coils or the C5 vibration or both?

Oh my! What a wealth of ideas you’ve shared! It will take me some time to work them through, so please don’t think I"m ignoring them! :smiley:

The tether problem is definitely due to the attachment of the coils to the device in combination with my moving all over the place during the night. I love the idea of the larger combined pad, but I move from fetal on one side, to one leg up and the other straight, then over to the other side – fetal and one straight – then on my stomach so both can be straight…it just goes on all night and my brain just stays on semi-alert to make sure I’m not typing my leash around myself. :slight_smile:

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