Flux Health Forum

Rehab for Stroke

On October 30 of last month, as we habitually do twice a year, my mother and I had our covid vaccine. Typical pain and aches, but nothing out of the ordinary. A week later we had our flu shot, and a few days after that, my mother complained that she felt her arms and legs were very weak and there was an overwhelming sense of fatigue. She needed to lean on the handrails just to get down the stairs.

We had an appointment with the family doctor the following day and just before leaving, I noticed her mouth was drooping to one side.

The doctor confirmed my mother was having a stroke and she was rushed to emergency where an MRI revealed damage to the pons area impacting her right arm and leg. Fortunately, damage was not too severe, cognitive function and vision unaffected. Doctors who examined her said most likely the covid vaccine triggered the stroke since up until the stroke, my 83-year-old mother had very low blood pressure and cholesterol, was very spry and energetic with no health issues.

@Bob, having read about your stroke and initiating exercises of the weak limbs, I suggested the same thing to my mother. Even though she was bed-bound, she started to working on pushing herself up with both arms and limbs on the bed several times before lying down again. She did this throughout her stay at the emergency until the next day when she got a bed in the stroke ward.

Physio and OT worked with her for half an hour of rehab every day for a week before she made sufficient progress to be transferred to a rehab centre near our home where she does rehab several hours a day every day except weekends. Even after workout (workout ends 4 pm), my mother continues on her own with a walker to do the workouts OT and physio taught her, she is that motivated.

Three weeks after her stroke, physio and OT now want to have the doctor re-assess her condition to see if she can come home.

@Bob, my mother has made a lot of progress thanks to the exercises you advised to initiate, but I’d like to know can the M1 do anything to optimize her recovery even more? She is able to walk and climb the stairs but still relies on handrails on the stairs or the walker to make her way around. Doctors are hopeful she could recover up to 95% of her original mobility.

I told her to place the stacked coils behind her left ear – stacked because she has a very small head and that’s the only way to fit the coils behind her left ear where the stroke affected her. Also because the MRI revealed the damage was to the pons, brainstem connecting brain to the spinal cord, so it’s quite deep into the head.

Question: would intensity of 12 be appropriate for this? I have set the M1 to Alpha Wave setting.
Second question: how many hours should she use the M1?
Third question: Would frequent application as well as quantity be better? Ie would it be better to do three times a day of say, 3 hours each sitting or one 9-hour use be better? or to wear this 24/7?

I know each individual may be different, and I will still have her experiment what works best for her, but just to get some framework would also be helpful.

Fourth question: my mother has always had low blood pressure averaging 100/60. Even after her stroke, at emergency, her highest was 140/65. Doctors said at her age, ideally, it would be better if her blood pressure was higher, around 130/80. Don’t know if this has ever been done before but can the M1 be applied to raise her bp a little more?

Thank you, @Bob for the exercises you advised. I also looked at your video about nitrous oxide release exercises, these are excellent, and I do agree with you, sedentary life is negatively impacting more and more people’s health!

@Serenity, I think overall what you are doing with your mother makes a lot of sense. The main thing is to stick with it every day. Remember, you only have a 4- to 6-month time window to get the maximum benefit of neuroadaptation after stroke. So make the most of it if you can.

PEMF: I think you will get better results with lower intensity and longer time exposure daily. I would actually use the M1 more at a setting of about 9 or 10, or maybe even less. You should also consider alternating days with coils side-by-side (not stacked). By my observations, sometimes a larger surface area on the head has more effect on the brain than an attempt at maximum focus for maximum depth of penetration. I think this may have to do with vascular perfusion of the scalp and cortex. The volume of blood flow in that region is very large compared to the rest of the body, and it seems to me that superficial large area PEMF exposes a lot of blood which then flows much more deeply, through the brain, and has downstream effects/benefits way beyond the simple concept of “depth of penetration”.

My opinion: I would use a lower intensity setting for longer time periods every day. You might even consider 24/7, but probably only half of that would be about as effective.

Use PEMF to raise BP? I don’t know. I have no data or information or observations or any theoretical framework to suggest that might work, sorry.

an additional suggestion: For general stroke recovery, clearance of blood vessels, and (hopefully) prevention of future stroke, my main tool is the use of nattokinase and serrapeptase enzymes every morning on an empty stomach. I discuss this at length elsewhere on this forum (just search the enzyme names).

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Thanks, that’s what I was thinking when I got her doing the exercises even before the hospital assigned her to rehab. I figure, like you said, it can only be beneficial to start on those exercises right away. Years ago, they said there was no going back with any brain damage suffered from strokes and head traumas, and I thought to myself if other parts of the body has a natural ability to heal, why not the brain? And now they’re talking about brain plasticity… it makes a lot more sense.

Okay, so if I got you right, @Bob, stacked coils alternating with side-by-side? But if larger surface has a better effect on the brain, perhaps forget the stacked coils and do just side-by-side then?

My mother tried to sandwich the coils between her head and the winter hat I had her wear while she does all-day rehab exercises, but her head is so small that the coils keep slipping out, so I think she can only do these lying in bed which means fewer hours. I will see about getting her a tighter hat — maybe then the coils won’t slip out…

And yes, I will have her try working the intensity 7-9 and see what number works best for her.

I did look up your discussion about nattokinase and serrapeptase enzymes. You mentioned elsewhere in the forum, that some people can’t tolerate certain foods as they age. FYI, I used to have a lot of food allergies and intolerances and they got progressively worse over the years, doctor also confirmed that age will make it more difficult to digest certain foods — until I experimented with the M1: one hour a day with the coils placed anywhere on the abdomen has really helped with constipation, and food allergies/intolerances. Whereas before, I would react with gas pain, cramping, diarrhea, hives, inflammation and heart burn to MSG, miso, spicy foods, tomato, whole wheat, raw shrimp, ginger, alcohol, rice… and now I can have anything! I would even venture to say the effect is cumulative over time as I can even skip a day or two of the M1 and still digest these foods without a problem! You can’t imagine how liberating that is! My mother had constipation when she was bed-bound with the stroke and I brought her the M1 to use, though now she has rehab for several hours a day, and constipation is no longer a problem. So amazing what this little gadget can do!

Thank you so so much, @Bob.

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Coils stacked vs. side-by-side, better for brain - we do not know that for sure. Even less so for all individuals, of all ages, in all locations on the head, for all patterns of use, and for all types of injuries. All I am saying is: in the few cases that I know of personally, stacked is not necessarily best. I also see good (sometimes better) results with coils side-by-side. So if it were me, I would hedge my bets and alternate between the two. Not super strict, not precise, just switch up every day or two.

Tighter cap: try skull caps, thin stretchable nylon caps. You can get these in child sizes, girls/boys, etc. An example (there are many others):

Digestion: Thanks for mentioning this topic. My sister had similar benefits for her severe gastro-intestinal issues. It also helps me, but I started from a much better place, so my improvement was not so dramatic, but it was noticeably good, especially with bloating and ease of digestion and food tolerance. It is great to hear that you and your mother had such excellent benefits and improvements in quality of life!

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Great suggestion @Bob, I do have a swim cap, used many years ago that’s very stretchy and might do the trick!

Okay, alternating between stacked coils and side-by-side. Thank you for the explanation.

Follow-up with the PEMF on my mother’s head as per @Bob’s suggestion, behind the left ear, alternating between stacked and side-by-side: On the second day of use, my mother was complaining of a pulsing pain on the right side of the head directly opposite of where the coils were placed. The intensity had been set at 8, so I reduced it to 7 and the pain disappeared.

Swim cap worked extremely well. It’s very elastic so I could even insert the entire M1 in there with the coils so they wouldn’t fall out.

Into the second week of rehab and the OT said my mother had made so much rapid progress they wanted to give her an extra week and a half before releasing her to go home. She can now walk without support and write her name, though both right arm and leg are still a little weak. In addition to her moulding with plastercine to strengthen her fingers they are getting her to work with weights to strengthen arm and leg.

Then yesterday I got word there’s been a covid outbreak on the stroke ward that’s rapidly spreading where my mother is residing, (several more patients tested positive just as I was writing this). Since covid can trigger another stroke in stroke patients, everyone is wearing N95 masks and they’re either quarantining patients or sending them home early. They are considering the latter option for my mother.

The building is old so I’m concerned about poor ventilation that might increase risk of transmission. On the other hand, I’m also wanting my mother to get as much rehab as possible, so I asked them if she could continue the rehab as an outpatient. The OT said there’s usually a 9-month waiting time to get in as an outpatient because there’s such a huge demand, but they may put her to the front due to my mother’s rapid progress. Both doctor, OTs and physios will meet to discuss this before letting me know.

I should also mention, in addition to the PEMF-ICES, my mother has been getting homeopathic remedies and Chinese herbs to boost her energy, YSD alternative modality treatment which works on specific pain points to address disease and increase circulation and healing, and a type of energy healing meditation to tap into healing energy/prana. The healthcare workers are aware of her use of these modalities and in fact encourage us to adopt whatever we find beneficial. I believe all of these contribute to her rapid improvement. For an 83yo she’s not doing bad at all!

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That’s really great, thanks!

@Bob , I was shopping for nattokinase and serrapeptase enzymes that you suggested — do you have a brand you find effective? We have Natto sold at our local Asian supermarkets, but not the nattokinase and serrapeptase you mentioned, so we would have to order online. Just don’t know if there is a range of quality.

Here is what I use, 2 capsules of each every morning on an empty stomach:

I have no financial connection to these products, I just like them for my personal use.

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I have used Doctor’s Best for other supplements and I found my mother and I responded well to it. I will consult with our family doctor on how to take these as my mother has low bp and nattokinase has a risk of lowering her bp even more. Thanks again!

I’ve used nattokinase and serrapeptase in the past for helping breakdown mucus, but never had the opportunity to see an organized explanation of benefits like this (thanks AI):

here’s the text pasted:
Nattokinase and serrapeptase are both enzymes that have gained popularity as dietary supplements for their potential health benefits. Here’s a breakdown of what they are purported to be good for:
Nattokinase:

  • Fibrinolytic Activity (Blood Clot Dissolving): This is its primary claim to fame. Nattokinase is derived from natto, a fermented soybean food from Japan. It’s believed to help break down fibrin, a protein involved in blood clot formation. This may potentially help prevent and dissolve blood clots, promoting healthier blood flow.
  • Cardiovascular Health: By potentially reducing blood clot risk and improving blood flow, nattokinase is often touted for its potential to:
    • Lower blood pressure
    • Reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke
    • Improve circulation
  • Other Potential Benefits (less researched):
    • May have a role in managing high cholesterol.
    • Some preliminary research suggests it may have neuroprotective effects, potentially beneficial for Alzheimer’s disease, but more studies are needed.
    • Could potentially reduce nasal polyp size.
      Serrapeptase:
  • Anti-inflammatory: This is its most prominent purported benefit. Serrapeptase is derived from a bacterium found in the gut of silkworms. It’s thought to help reduce inflammation by breaking down proteins that contribute to the inflammatory process.
  • Pain Relief: Due to its potential anti-inflammatory properties, serrapeptase is often used to help manage pain associated with conditions like:
    • Arthritis
    • Sinusitis
    • Post-surgical pain and swelling
  • Mucolytic (Mucus Thinning): Serrapeptase is believed to break down mucus, making it thinner and easier to expel. This can be helpful for conditions like:
    • Sinusitis
    • Chronic bronchitis
  • Other Potential Benefits (less researched):
    • May help improve antibiotic effectiveness by breaking down bacterial biofilms.
    • May help reduce the risk of atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) by reducing inflammation.
      Important Considerations:
  • Scientific Evidence: While both enzymes show promise, more research is needed to definitively confirm their effectiveness and safety for specific conditions. Much of the current evidence is preliminary or based on animal studies.
  • Interactions: Nattokinase, in particular, can interact with blood-thinning medications (e.g., warfarin, aspirin) and may increase the risk of bleeding. Serrapeptase can also interact with some medications.
  • Side Effects: Both enzymes are generally considered safe when taken as directed, but some people may experience mild side effects like nausea, stomach upset, or skin rash.
  • Consult Your Doctor: It’s crucial to talk to your doctor before taking nattokinase or serrapeptase, especially if you have any underlying health conditions, are taking medications, or are pregnant or breastfeeding. They can help you determine if these supplements are appropriate for you and monitor you for any potential side effects or interactions.
    In Summary:
    Nattokinase is primarily known for its potential blood-thinning and clot-dissolving properties, while serrapeptase is mainly recognized for its potential anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving effects. Both enzymes are gaining interest for their potential health benefits, but more research is required. Always consult a healthcare professional before incorporating these or any other supplements into your routine.

I’m gonna start using this regularly now. thx for the heads up Bob!

Sorry, the article script is too small to read. However, there is another enzyme that works specifically for softening arteries and preventing cardiovascular disease: lumbokinase made from earthworms! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

worms? ugh… fortunately there are 2 other options to use instead!

(updated the text post, FYI)

Oh, and you think serrapeptase from silkworms is much better?! And if you’ve asked the AI to compare all three enzymes, it would tell you lumbrokinase is the most effective of the three…. Why else would it cost at least twice as much as the other two?

Anyway, it’s in capsule form, and you neither taste nor smell anything, which is way better than the Japanese fermented natto soybean from which nattokinase is extracted. Natto looks like snot, and the taste? — slimy, stringy, salty on the bitter side and pungent!

And for that matter, you’re not buying them for how they appear in original form but for their health benefits. Granted, psychologically I would have been the last person to think of eating an earthworm… but 100 years ago God forbid the thought of eating shrimp, those wriggly fish bait you string out on fish hooks!

ok…i think i was stuck on the thought of earthworms without realizing silkworms not much better an image… will check that out thx

so I explored your suggestion of lumbrokinase… apparently, of the three, that’s the one that is literally from/of earthworms. serrapeptase is from the bacteria from the gut of silkworms that breaks down protein (close but not exactly “eating the worm” like lumbrokinase), nattokinase is the bacteria from soy bean that breaks down blood clots (fibrin), but not as potent as lumbrokinase as you mentioned.

anyway, i got me some earthworms and started 2 days ago back to back on lumbrokinase… first day i had dark yellow urine about 2h after ingesting… weird… poking around the forums and web, it likely is the result of detox…i was also constipated for 2 days… likely result from impact to my gut biome… i also noticed a dull headache that lasted a few hours about an hour after taking. I’m gonna rest 2 days from lumbrokinase and do another 2 days thereafter just to minimize any major detox symptoms that could follow.

I’d like to say i noticed I’m getting better sleep and feeling more energetic, but it’s really too early and too subtle to claim that as a result from lumbrokinase.

should be interesting how things unfold. my :poop: after lumbrokinase… I’ll spare you the gory details, but i can see how it can breakdown biofilms :crazy_face::smile:

thanks for the extra mention in the group of proteolytic enzymes!

Glad it helps. My mother and I have been on it for a little over a week now and the serrapeptase for several weeks. Nothing as spectacular as your case with the lumbrokinase but significant reduction of pain and mucous with the serrapeptase. Pretty amazing stuff, these enzymes.

despite hearing how everyone can react differently to certain things, i am always surprised how/why i would get different results compared to others. i guess the variables i overlook could be the reasons why people get different results: lifestyle, diet, exercise, environment, genetics, history of exposure to a variety of things, tolerances, age, etc

the lumbrokinase i got is this : https://a.co/d/eUf7eln and if you read the reviews they are mixed. the product label advertising reads odorless… haha… definitely not odorless like some have complained about. but if this is basically chopped up worms, dried and made to powder, you can’t escape some smell. if it were completely odorless, my concern would be they are oxidized and therefore less potent. the only thing i don’t like about these kinds of supplements is that we don’t know how pure or “clean” the source is for these supplements. we are relegated to trusting and hoping brand is strong enough to trust

but yes, very happy when i see results of something happening when I’m trying something new than not :crossed_fingers:t4::pray:t4:

Nattokinase is my top favorite. I combine it with Serrapeptase every morning, but then I alternate it with Lumbrokinase every few days. So, my strategy is to cycle between them.


BioNerd Tanget:
I base my thoughts on my experience and a bit of theory. I have a lot of experience doing research with tissue engineering and cell culture. Most people doing this just use immortalized cells, purchased suspended in a small vial. But almost all of my research used live tissues, from all sorts of animals and humans, typically surgical discards. To get the cells from live tissues, you need to use a lot of enzymes and other techniques. One thing I noticed repeatedly was that using a sequence of different enzymes always dissociated the tissues and ECM much better than using only one enzyme. It’s not random though: I avoid use some enzymes together (they may be non-specific enough that the enzymes attack each other, such as “protease”, for example).

But I definitely observed a marked improvement when I used a series of enzymes, one after the other (quenching between as necessary). In my mind, I generalize this phenomenon. When you look for it, you can see it in action in a lot of places. For example, when washing clothes, sometimes a sequence of cleaning agents works much better than any one alone. Sometimes a combination works better than just one (example: Borax added to laundry). This also works for industrial cleaning and degreasing, preparing aluminum for anodizing, washing dishes, etc. Sometimes adding a sequence of lubricants to a mechanism works better than just one “optimal” lubricant. And I think definitely the dirtier the system is, when degunking anything that is really filthy with lots of different junk in it, the better it is to use a sequence of cleansers, surfactants, solvents, etc.

Conceptually I think of this as removing different layers with different enzymes, solvents, etc. But I think it is more than that: certain agents will loosen some binding substances to allow other substances to have better access, sometimes certain agents will change the pH or surface charge, sometimes an agent will add or bind a molecule that changes the solubility of another molecule into a different agent, and many other effects like that.

I apply this general principle to the use of enzymes to clearance of blood vessels: I try to intelligently combine (in sequence, not all together), various things that seem to have good scientific or clinical support for their beneficial effects.

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Hi @Bob and @BioNerd Tanget, serrapeptase seems to be more easily available here in Canada than the other two, but with the forthcoming trade war that people are anticipating between Canada and US, I might not be able to access these enzymes as easily as before. Fortunately, I do find serrapeptase to be really effective in cutting down my fibromyalgia pain about 50% and my mother recovering from a stroke cannot take nattokinase because of her low blood pressure, which is why we settled on serrapeptase and lumbrokinase. We take both together because I have high bp in addition to sometimes excruciating FM pain. But it never occurred to me to cycle between them. I could suggest that for my mother, since she doesn’t experience pain and her bp is lower than most people – her bp averages 95 over 60 which is far from optimal for an 83 yo. When you cycle between them, do you just alternate every second or third day or cycle randomly(example, serrapeptase for one week, lumbrokinase for a couple of days)? I do that with shampoos which I find very effective.