Hi there. I’m using the C5 device to see if it helps with my moms TBI that she experienced after a major surgery. I have seen some preliminary results that that have been positive. I’m wondering how many minutes a day is considered too much for a person? Also, how wide is the pemf field of a coil? I’m asking because I want to know how many locations realistically one would have to target to do the whole head.
We did publish the very promising results of our mTBI pilot study here:
A description of the protocol that we used is here:
Keep in mind, this is entirely experimental, so we do not have optimized protocols. Our finding was that in general, any coil placement on the head was helpful (not just one particular coil placement), and it is not necessary to “cover the whole head”: PEMF is more like acupuncture, and less similar to tanning booth. Think of PEMF as a focal point, not a blanket area.
Of all the coil placement strategies, the general feeling (with no hard data, just observations), was that trans-parietal coil placements seemed best, with coils bumpy-sides out on both sides of the head, one over each parietal lobe of the brain.
If you stack the coils with bumpy side out and in, that gives maximum penetration right?
Also, if I 2 stacked coils side by side, do I get deeper penetration or do I negate the effect? What about placing coils on the front and back of head and 1 on either side of the temples running all 4 simultaneously?
stacked coils == better penetration, but as you will see in many posts, less power is more often better than more power. Please look through the many comments in this forum to understand.
As for orientation of bumpy sides, please refer to your other question at a different location that I already answered.
I was reviewing other posts regarding power levels but didn’t seem to come across something for treating tbi, stroke, etc. I have been using the C5 with stacked coils (2 side by side to mimic deep field coils) and the scTMS protocol but not having great success without the Vielight as an adjunct. Based on the posts I read, single unstacked coils work better on the forebrain than Deep field coils? For power I’ve been running at level 13… it is unclear why reducing the power level would work better? From what I read people were trying headaches? What about people falling asleep during the treatment is that a normal process?
power level: too much is simply too much. Example: if you drink too much clean pure water, it will kill you. Why? Because to much is too much (look up “water toxicity”).
PEMF does not appear to be as dangerous, but too much of anything is simply just too much.
I have demonstrated this with the effect of PEMF on plants (seed germination):
https://www.josam.org/josam/article/view/58
In this paper I clearly show, in a way that is repeatable and simple, that PEMF dosage can have three dosage levels:
Too little is too little.
Too much is too much.
In the middle somewhere, just the right amount is just right.
I very often need to spend weeks or months telling individual people who can not grasp this and refuse to believe it. They tend to fall into two groups:
People who eventually listen, try using less power, and benefit greatly.
People who never listen, keep using too much power, and do not get benefits.
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I’m asking because my mom has cognitive deficits and can’t really communicate well with me on these types of things. Can you tell me the difference between scTMS and Beta 1, Beta 2, Beta 3 waves?
The differences are shown on the documentation that we send with every system, in this case page 2 of the 2 page Quick Start document:
If she can not communicate well, then it is even more essential that you proceed with an abundance of caution, in this case:
TOO MUCH IS TOO MUCH
In red light therapy, they talk about biphasic dose response. The exact same words you used. But there it’s fairly easy to do the math, if you know the irradiance of the device. I suspect there’s an individual component even there. And most of the manufacturers use the wrong meter, so they exaggerate the irradiance, which means there’s a fairly big safety zone.
And it depends on what you treat.
With PEMF the size of the field is important. When I put the coils behind my neck, the field reached my nose (less stuffy after a while, which tipped me off to it having some effect), but the field strength was much less than at the back of my neck. Same when I put them right underneath my chin. It has to go through my mouth to reach my nose. If my nose needed more than my mouth, it would be better to put them over my nose.
In other words, the intensity you need and can use depends on how close you can get to your target, and how deep the field goes. Also, can the tissue between your target and the coils handle it? Depends on your health, and the health of your mitochondria. It depends on how toxic you are, and how prone to herx. There might be other potential issues?
I’ve seen on a Bemer group that a certain group of patients practically all of them get adverse effects when they progress from one program to another (I forgot which one). They have to go back for a while longer. This group has mitochondria issues. Kreb’s cycle. Which causes lactic acid buildup and sore muscles.
Thx. I understand now.
@sikram2002 I have used ICES with a number of people having brain injury. I suggest starting with the protocol Bob gave you in the link to the pilot study. But watch for signs of headache especially. If she may not be able to communicate this verbally, then watch for her to be rubbing her head or trying to move the coils or other signs of discomfort.
Alternatively, use those positions, but start with a few minutes and gradually increase the time the coils are applied.
Some people are more sensitive than others and you want to be giving the brain “just enough” stimulation, not trying to force it beyond its present capacity for healing.
Hope that still helps – I can see I’m late to the question!
She don’t seem to have discomfort. I have been using tpms 10 ms for 30 min and Beta2 for 30 to 45 minutes shopping with a Vielight therapy. I looked at the study that Bob did and I’m not sure if it made sense in moms case. Has anyone in the group tried the protocol that was in the study? If so, what were the results?