Osteochondritis dissecans (a.k.a. OCD) on elbow

[sushi]

Hello - My daughter (13) has recently been diagnosed with Osteochondritis dissecans (a.k.a. OCD) on her elbow. It is an overuse injury on an elbow joint that causes demineralization of the articular surface of the capitellum (subcondrial bone damage and some cartridge damage depends on severity, often corrected through surgery) Unfortunately it’s a fairly common injury for young athletes who train intensely in some of the sports. The current plan is still uncertain as we are waiting for results of MRI and discussion for the best path forward medically - we dont know whether she need surgery or not.

I’ve used ICES in pre A9 days and have had positive experiences myself on various issues.

I’ve also read some of the discussions here, and it seems to help with bone growth as well as joint issues - both of which are applicable in her case.

I am considering purchasing a newer unit in hopes to aid the recovery of her problem as it includes newer protocols optimized for this sort of thing. I am thinking to get her either M1 or C5 unit, and place the coil on the problem areas of elbow, have her wear 6+h/ day while sleeping (else she won’t likely have sufficient long enough exposure during the week and some weekends due to school and practices)

I fully intend to experiment with it – play around with protocols, coil configuration, signal strengths periodically as well based on results.

Interested in feedback on this or any tips / references, pointers, your experiences, etc

Thank you so much

[Bob]

I think you have a pretty good plan. A C5 would let her use it on up to 4 different areas at the same time, so maybe that would be best if she will be using it while not moving around much (sleeping or seated). It would also be very helpful for a lot of people if you reported the results back here. Many people would benefit, and maybe you could also get some good suggestions in return.

[gunplt]

@sushi I have a C5 (it was my 1st PEMF), but also an A9, P9, & just recently a M1. The C5 is great, you can use a LiPO power bank to make it portable, but it’s heavy (power bank) & awkward if your up and active. The A9 is crazy light and has the Omni 8 protocol, which has worked very well for myself and several in my family on bone/joint/dental related issues. As well as migraine, cramping etc… I would bet she will be more apt to wear it (the A9) for more hours than the C5. I use my C5 in bed or while watching TV. But for example; I am typing this in a cab in London (I just got off a plane) and I am wearing my A9.

I bought a plastic clip that let’s me clip it in a convenient location. I wear it at work, shoping, while traveling, etc.

I really like having other protocols for other uses on the other devices, but there is no more convenient device to use as you go about your day… just my ¢2.

[sushi]

Thank you @gunplt @Bob .

I guess I’ll use this thread to track this activity – So I didn’t realize the unit I had was A9 (bought long time ago back in 2015) - I thought it was pre A9, but I guess not. So, we started using A9 from the day I posted (8/28), so far, every night, overnight during sleeping. Once I get C5 to arrive, we plan to use it instead:

There are couple of things we’ve gone through so far:

1. Placement, coil configuration and signal strengths

The lesion of injury is elbow capitellum, little bit distant from the skin, so we decided to double stack the coil (bumpy side facing together), and taped with athletic tape to secure. Until 2 days or so ago (so about 7 days. total), we placed this coil directly on the skin and secured with medical tape, then wrapped with the medical band over to keep it in place during sleep. She sleeps about 8-9h, so she’s getting the dosage at least that much every day, and some days like weekends, she wears few more hours during the day. We started with “Medium” strengths to start as it seems to have yielded the best result for my usage in the past.

About 2 days ago, she got casted. Thankfully no surgery needed, the dr. thought that the elbow needs to be protected to aid healing. So, we bumped the signal strengths to High to make sure signal is strong enough to penetrate through the distance created by the cast. The material of the cast seems to be magnetic friendly (fiberglass tape, I think?)

2. Clicking Noise
   Apparently the clicking noise during sleep bothers her from time to time after the first day. Workaround we did was to wrap it with bath towels on both unit (A9) itself, and where coil is placed (elbow area), separately. It gets thick but it silences enough that noise no longer bothers her since then.

3. Active sleeper
   My DD is a very active sleeper and moves aggressively during sleep. I’ve read on one of the threads here suggesting using elastic band to keep the coil wire attached from the unit. I did that. Between that and A9 unit wrapped around in bath towel (also secured with rubber bands), seem to be handling her aggressive sleep okay. It has stayed on entire time, and wire seems intact / not damaged.

4. Protocol
   We started off with A9 unit purchased back in 2015, so we didn’t have any choice but the one A9 is programmed with (I think that’s Omni8?).

5. Battery
   I use rechargeable battery and seem to last all night - in either medium or high. This is a pleasant news!

Few things wondering so far:

A) Rest intervals
Should I be concerned about body adapting to the signal, and make an extra effort in intentionally not using some days? (e.g. 1 day rest/week?)

B) Protocol
Should I continue to use Omni 8 or change to something else once C5 arrives? And perhaps related to previous (A), instead of giving a rest day, change up the protocol better?

C) Sleeping configuration
I wonder C5 is too bulky to do what I am doing right now - wrapped around in bath towel to silence, etc. There might be perhaps better configurations out there, but longest coil (42") seems to be still too short to place the unit too far from the bed, so I have to come up with something that works like what I am doing with A9 right now…

D) When to change up protocols and strengths
Unfortunately, her injured elbow is immobilized right now, and cast wont’ come off nor next imaging done for probably 3-4 weeks, so we don’t have a good physical indication to see whether it is working or not and whether changing in configuration (e.g. protocol, signals, coil config, etc) may be warranted. I wonder if there’s some systematic ways to change/cycle them which may yield better result…

Anyhow, I’ll update this thread periodically as we change/discover things. If anyone have any feedback, feel free to shout here.

Thanks!

[gunplt]

@sushi

It sounds like you have a robust plan. The only suggestions that come to mind while the elbow is cast are; coil configuration- the stacked is probably a wise choice, the only alternative I see might be a Helmholtz configuration but I don’t know that it would be better that what you are already doing,

Protocol- Omni 8 works really well, you could also try B5 - C5 when you get your C5, and there is also a choice to have 5 minute rest periods before the protocols repeat if you wanted to try that.

The only other thought I had is- with your C5 you could possibly have 2 pairs of coils stacked in a Helmholtz configuration, but @Bob would probably be a better person to discuss the usefulness / feasibility of that.

Best of luck!

[Bob]

Those sound like good suggestions to me.

[sushi]

Hi – Just thought I’ll give some update on progress:

My DD had a follow up at 4 weeks mark and had a X ray taken as well as her cast removed. Per X ray, her doctor thought her elbow is healing “better than expected at this stage of healing”. I think this is good news. As previously planned, her cast came off, and on splint for another 4 weeks before another followup - at which point we should be able to tell whether we can progress to next stage (strengths rehab)

Protocol wise, we’ve been pretty much doing the something since the day 1 of diagnosis - Omni8 (A9 original for first few days till we got C5), for 8-12h/day at power high (12 level on C5) during sleep and some waking time. The only difference is that after we received C5, we upped the # of coil by having 2 double stacked coils positioned in near opposite side of elbow (sandwiching the problem lesion over the cast). Our intention was to ensure the problem areas are well covered through the cast.

We plan to continue with the same plan for next 4 weeks. I am not familiar with standard healing time for OCD nor bone / cartilage, but I suspect next 4 weeks will tell a lot about whether this protocol has been accelerating / aiding healing process. Hopefully she’s healed enough to be able to begin a rehab (strengths rebuild).

One of other somewhat unrelated issue we encountered and wondering if anyone has any thoughts:

1. We wished we could change the power output on each channel/coil on C5 - my DD has been training still on lower body, and sometimes we want to apply it on other areas while sleeping but not at the same strengths as elbow is. If anyone know any trick to doing something, pls let me know. (e.g. resistance plug or something I can attach on some of the coils to reduce power?)

2. Prior to receiving C5, we were using A9 but this was built long ago (I have owned this unit long time ago for other reasons), and as I understand it, it has older protocol than Omni 8 (called A9 original?). It still seem useful as it does work over many things I have applied to, but wondering about the change, and what makes Omni8 better over A9 original. And whether older A9 be upgraded to use Omni 8?

That’s it for now. Cheers!