Flux Health Forum

Multiple Sclerosis and other neurological conditions

I have had some kind of neurological condition/s my whole life. I am 72. I have never seen a neurologist or had mri because MD quacks told me the condition was only ptsd related. The condition has morphed a bit but not particularly degenerated. The symptoms closely mimic those of MS which for some reason I never admitted to myself before now. In any case I have been on my own to discover answers and solution. I have eaten an organic vegan diet for many years because that’s what I like and I feel it works for me. However it has not healed the condition. I have been using the M1 ices device for over a year on and off. I have tried it all over my body and head without stable progress. Lately having diagnosed myself with MS, I have concentrated on using it on my head in the TBI study position of one coil on back of head and one on forehead. I have increased to 12 intensity, alpha protocol, and many hours at a time. For the first time, I feel the M1 is helping to make real difference. I can even sleep with it for hours and feel refreshed upon awakening. I also do alot of stretching based on the pandiculation principle I have written about in another topic.
My hypothesis is that the pemf charges up the neurons in the brain/spine i.e. increases voltage in the circuits. This creates pressure/power on the damaged circuits to repair themselves. The somatic muscle exercises create negative pressure to draw current thru the damaged neurons from the brain/spinal cord into the muscles. These two processes complement each other to stimulate efficient neuron rebuilding. That’s my story for now…

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Hi Prometheus,

Have you looked into Lions Mane mushroom powder or extract? My father has dementia and just started with https://doublewoodsupplements.com/products/lions-mane-mushroom

I have read alot of positive things so hopefully it can help, but also it maybe applicable to MS as it has nerve regen & protective properties I understand. https://terrywahls.com/ms-management-and-my-medicinal-mushroom-trio/

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no i have not looked into that. i consider electrical to be more direct and powerful than chemical methods although both have their place.

These mushrooms work well for eliminating pathogenic species in your gut (gram negative bacteria in particular):

  • Chaga
  • Reishi
  • Lions Mane

I would evaluate your gut health - many (most?) autoimmune disorders start in the gut. You can try ICES here, too. Look into leaky gut, perhaps.

@csquire is correct: Lions Mane is neuroregenerative - Combine with Reishi.

Hope that’s useful.

H

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Hi Richard

Thanks for sharing your story.

You may be interested to look into papers of Sandyk (US) and Anninos (Greece). Both use(d) PEMF to treat deseases like MS, Parkinson, epilepsy, etc.

Both used very low intense PEMF (10 picotesla) with alpha frequency (like 10 Hz) but Anninos used something like a cap. Both got very good results.

However, when Anninos tried 10 picotesla EMF on healthy subjects - it didn’t work. Seems like people with neuro degenerative conditions have stronger EMF sensitivity.

If you can endure strong EMF - this means that your condition fortunately is not bad.

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Hi,

MS is often caused by heavy metal poisoning, especially from mercury, which originates from amalgam fillings, fish (like tuna).

Kindly,
Carsten

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thanks…very interesting info. I’m going to study it.

Ices devices can generate much stronger fields than picotesla as I understand it. I guess the research confirms that the weak pemf mats like Beamer can still show health improvements.
When I first started with M1 on my head a year ago, I would get immediate head pressure and side effects. Now I can do high intensity for long periods if I want. As you say, it shows improvement and I can feel the difference in strength and stamina overall. But the positioning of back and front on my head seems paramount.
Yuri, would you care to share your personal experience with pemf and ices?

@Bob
are you familiar with this research by Sandyk (US) and Anninos using pemf, and if so would you care to comment?

The biophysical transduction and molecular mechanisms of PEMF are not really well understood at all. That is just the truth. But PEMF has been shown to be effective for dozens of conditions, in more than 1000 peer-reviewed scientific papers, over a period of more than 50 years. Most of these papers do not give enough technical detail to tell exactly what is being done experimentally (peak Gauss and primary frequency are not enough detail, and these are often reported inaccurately by a factor if 10 - 100 anyway), so it remains impossible to say what really works and what does not. But I can tell you this:

I have seen enough to arrive at the belief that many types of PEMF work for many different conditions.

I have spent many years trying to carefully define exactly which type of PEMF works most safely and reliably for the widest range of conditions. After 22+ years, my findings are embodied in Micro-Pulse products. They differ in important ways from other PEMF products, but I am not saying that other PEMF technologies do not work. I am simply stating that they probably work, but are not well-defined enough to be scientifically replicated independently. That does not mean that any particular PEMF technology does or does not work. But the lack of standardization and technical detail makes accurate and meaningful comparisons nearly impossible.

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Hi Richard

I don’t have any neuro degenerative condition myself nor I have any experience with treating one.

My interest lies mainly in so called brainwave entrainment (BWE). BWE happens when you apply PEMF to your head - so I’ve been reading different research papers on the subject (btw, the information is very scarce).

So I decided to provide this information - might be it will be interesting to you or anybody else.

P.S. My personal experience with PEMF shows that short impulses of let’s say about 100 nanotesla (=0.1 microtesla - rectangular with steep front) give very good BWE and there is no need for stronger field - at least for me. But as Bob said (who understands much more on the topic than I do) the intensity of the impulse is but one parameter. For example, with sine impulse you may have to have much higher intensity to feel anything. Also I don’t have an access to a lab and to measure parameters at home is difficult.

However, I saw several serious researches that lower intensity gave better results than higher intensity with all other parameters same. So with PEMF sometimes more does not mean better

Yours
Yuri

you may find this link interesting. he does some creative work with bwe tones and music.
. For bwe, Isochronic tones supposedly work much better than binaural tones.

Richard, thanks

However, binaural beats will not work with PEMF. Only with sound waves.

With PEMF I think impulses will work better than isochronic tones and will be way safer. You may read Bob posts in this forum on duty cycle.

P.S. The article is superficial - the author doesn’t go inside the topic. People prefer not to explain how they do their devices and waveforms. Bob is a rare exception.

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I generally agree with Yuri on this important point: there does seem to be pretty clear scientific evidence that very low intensity (peak Gauss) pulses does sometimes, under some circumstances, have very significant effects. I believe this is because PEMF acts at many different levels, with different mechanisms in different tissue systems and disease states. One example would be in neuronal network stimulation, where the effects of stochastic resonance could dominate at very low intensities:

In this case, the stimulus needs to be applied at a very low level to add just enough noise to bring the sensory system above a threshold where noise actually improves the signal being processed. Too much intensity can make the results worse. This is just one example, and it shows that at the correct intensity, even pure noise can be beneficial. I think it is clear that PEMF works with many different fundamental mechanisms. This is why the details of how PEMF works at a fundamental level have been so impossible to pin down for many decades.

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Bob, thanks for your interesting explanation. This is new to me - will study.

There is another approach to explain the effectiveness of low intensity EMF on brain.

  1. Brain is the most sensitive part of the body (to EMF as well).
  2. Humans live inside the natural Earth EMF and our brain is accustomed to react on natural EMF changes. In order to influence brain it’s enough to produce EMF just slightly above natural Earth EMF.
  3. Earth EMF itself is around 30-50 microTl. But this is a number for the spectrum. For most of the frequencies it’s much lower (might be 1,000 times lower)
  4. Earth EMF strongest impulses (which arise from time to time) are ~100 nanoTl.
  5. So all in all to induce brain it’s enough to apply 100 microTl of "regular’ EMF and 0.1 microTl for impulses.

Actually for some frequencies it may be even much lower.

Certainly it depends as well on EMF session legnth. As usually we use relatively short sessions (10-30 min) these figures may be slightly increased .

And our brains are not accustomed to high intensities. Certainly there is some extra brain resistance. However, the higher the intensity the more is probability of sideback effects until at a certain intensity brain breaks.

Hi @Yuri, can you share more of your self experimentation findings? What change are you seeking with BWE, how do you identify progress, what settings do you use with which ICES device on which region of your head, etc? I would like to find a way to increase GABA if possible with ICES PEMF. Supplementation has had bad side effects. tVNS as recommended by @krissully has been very helpful so far, but curious on the role ICES PEMF can play in brain health/balance.

Hi TajD

I’m just starting with PEMF BWE so I am not an expert in any way

I do have a good experience with sound BWE. Based on this experience BWE is a tool to entrain the whole brain rather than parts of it so that brain acquired a certain range of frequencies. So my understanding is that PEMF shall be applied to all brain rather than parts of it.

I doubt that BWE can serve a specific purpose like increasing GABA. Or perhaps it can make it only indirectly like a meditation does. I’m planning to use PEMF BWE for general improvement of my health like a non-specific treatment. The idea is that part of health problems is due to malfunctioning of the brain which is the operating processor. So by influencing the brain it would be possible to influence health (in the same way as meditation does – only this is like “forced meditation”)

The effects of PEMF (and specifically ICES-PEMF, by intentional design) are entirely different and separate from brain wave entrainment (BWE). BWE has many well known effects, and probably many other effects that are less well known. And it is important that the stimulus that elicits the effects of ICES-PEMF can simultaneously elicit BWE. I have written a fair amount, and spoken of this interaction at several professional conferences. So it is important to understand that while the input stimuli can have simultaneous effects, the resulting biological effects are due to entirely different mechanisms and are likely to be entirely unrelated,.

So, as a practical matter, it is entirely possible to choose a pulse pattern (such as Alpha Wave) that might induce a relaxed, attentive state through BWE, while also eliciting reduced inflammation (non-specific, unrelated to frequency, ICES-PEMF mechanism) that might, for example, reduce pain in the cranium.

Of course the converse could be true: a basically beneficial pulse pattern that reduces inflammation by one mechanism but also simultaneously induces an undesirable brain state.

When this topic arises, as it occasionally does, I generally suggest (when stimulating near the CNS) to use a pulse pattern that elicits pleasant or desirable brain states (through BWE), and the desired anti-inflammatory effects through the ICES-PEMF mechanism will happen simultaneously. That’s my opinion based on many discussions and direct experience.

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