I’m interested in a cartilage study.
OK, great, I am trying to put a study on joint cartilage together, will take some time but I am working on it.
1 Like
OK, great, I am trying to put a study on joint cartilage together, will take some time but I am working on it.
As I may have mentioned, the cartilage that secures my ribs seems to be loose at one rib in my chest. This can be very painful and for a time, about 9 months ago, I could only breathe with intense pain. Those around me said that this is a coming sports injury, but I don’t play. I was only about to recover by keeping my back stiff and straight. I slept bent over a chair since I couldn’t lay down. That wasn’t fun. Yes, the chair was padded.
After I recieved the M1, I used it in that spot and, through treatment, the pain subsided. It has recently returned to a lesser degree. I again placed the M1 coils above the chest area and applied the Omni 8 frequency.
At first the pain seems to increase and the area feels tighter. After about five minutes the pain was gone. I fell asleep with it on me and woke up about three hours later. I took it off and went back to sleep without pain.
I am encouraged to continue treatment because it seems to reduce pain quickly and the effect lasts proportionally to the amount if time and number if treatments. So the first times I used it, the pain went away but would come back a few days later and at almost the same intensity. Yesterday the pain was very mild (obviously uncomfortable). Since treating last night I feel great but I’m slowly realizing that I need to maintain a proper treatment routine.
2 Likes
I’m in for a study as well. I have an autoimmune arthritis as well as bone on bone osteoarthritis in the knees. I’d be happy to re-grow cartilage anywhere, but I can start with the knees. 
I have the C5 so sleeping would be tricky, but I could schedule other hours.
I can see, @Bob, that you want people to do what they do to get more variation in approaches for comparison, but I’d love some “Getting Started Approaches” that share what people, including yourself, have done in the sense of “aim for: coil placements that… a range of x-xx hours per day, protocols like Omni-8 or …”.
Based on your experience, for example, would you think it matters where the coils are placed (i.e., dorsally and ventrally or medially and laterally or switching these around on different days) or whether “deep coils” or single coils are used? 2x2 array or single coils as preferable? Minimum number of hours per day? I know these are all guesses and that’s the point of the study 
, but as a jumping off place maybe?
Dr Karen,
I don’t know if this will help because you are talking about a different type of healing, but I can give you the length of time, which was needed for nonunion fracture healing.
People using PEMF for MORE than 3 hours per day had an 80% success rate.
People using PEMF for LESS than 3 hours per day had a 35.7% success rate.
1 Like
Yeah,
I love statistics, too.
Especially when the results are that clear.
OK, so this is kind of a complex issue, so I feel a long email starting to pour out. I’ll try to be brief, failing that, apologies in advance,
People are highly variable, and even within one single person, responses can be highly variable.
For example, about a decade ago, my right hip responded well to a relatively simple and brief treatment that I applied with an earlier form of PEMF. Initially, the pain would subside quickly, usually within a few hours of applying PEMF. Within a few months of daily treatment, the problem went away and I regained full pain-free function of my right hip. That was about a decade ago, and I am happy to report that the problem has never returned.
More recently, my left hip had the same sort of deep joint pain. To me, it seemed identical to the situation with my right hip a decade ago. Thinking the same treatment would be effective, I tried that first.
The simple treatment was not as effective on my left hip as it was on my right. So, I have been working with it for more than 2 years now, trying different things with varying levels of success. My left hip is requiring a lot more work, using much more carefully-placed PEMF, over a much longer period of time (years, not months). But clearly, it continues to get better, not worse. So, I am sticking with it. Progress is slow, but it is clearly getting better over time, without drugs or surgery.
So I think it is not likely to be productive to look for one-size-fits-all instructions. To take part in something like this, people would have to cheerfully embrace that kind of variability and uncertainty.
So, exactly what did I do?:
Right hip, about a decade ago, I only had the A9 protocol available at that time with a crude device (basically an early version of the SomaPulse that I later developed for Dr. Bill Pawluk). I placed the coils alternately stacked over the point of pain (in the fold of my hip), or front and back, on opposite sides of the point of pain, one coil in the fold of my hip, the other high on my right buttock. I set the intensity HIGH, adjusting this up or down occasionally.
I tried to wear the device as much as I could every day, especially when seated. I noticed that the longer I wore the device every day, the more progress I seemed to make. If I could wear it at least 6 to 8 hours (day or night or both), my progress was very good.
Left Hip: About a decade later, I began to have what felt like the identical problem in my left hip. I first tried the above strategy, but it was not quite enough. By this time I was developing the B5, C5, and eventually the M1. This enabled me to do a lot more experimenting. So, I tried 2x2 coil pads, but with minimal effect. I also found that Omni8 or Schumann 4 worked a bit better for me than the classic old A9 protocol.
I just stacked two coil pairs that were placed side-by-side to make the deep field coils. That is what I am wearing now. I alternate between Omni8 and Schumann 4, usually at high intensity on the C5. Basically, I sleep with the C5 and deep field coils, placed in the fold of my hip. That seems to be working.
The severe sharp pains that would prevent me from walking have gone away, and the pain, though sometimes still severe, is less sharp and less frequent, and I can almost walk normally.
One thing that I have found to be universally true is that the longer you can wear it, every day and night, the better and faster it works. I do not believe you can substitute short periods and a blisteringly high intensity device instead of using lower intensity efficient devices for a longer time. I think this process works by gently and persistently promoting a cellular environment where healing is possible, but it is a slow process, not a quick miracle. And I will take slow and steady natural healing over surgery and a metal hip any day.
So, this is what I did. I also have a few images to (hopefully) show progress by x-ray image. To do this, people could start by trying what I tried, which is more or less the standard way I suggest using ICES-PEMF for any type of orthopedic injury. I really think people should start there, use the device daily for as long as possible, observe their progress carefully (noting the type, details, and severity of pain and range of motion), record it, and then try variations of coil placement, again observe and record, and be patient and persistent.
If people are willing to record the details of what they tried and what they observed, we can begin to see patterns and then we can generate better guidelines.
6 Likes
I had the same rib injury when I was in college. It was due to weight lifting. I suffered for years and often could not breathe without excruciating pain.
At the time I did not have PEMF technology, I dealt with it by carefully controlling my posture, chiropractic care, and by just simply suffering until it got somewhat better.
Occasionally, chiropractors would tell me that several ribs on my right side had frozen together, presumably by hyper-contracture of my intercostal muscles.
This happened in 1983. After a few years, it subsided slowly, but from time to time I twist the wrong way and the problem sharply returns. But recently, I have been able to deal with it quickly and effectively by simply using coils directly over the point of sharpest pain. Usually within an hour, the pain subsides, and the ribs seem to have readjusted, even after decades of injury, back to a more normal anatomical configuration.
Since I have had ICES-PEMF, this injury has resurfaced much less frequently and severely than it had done for decades. This is one of the personal applications that have driven me to keep developing this technology.
4 Likes
@Bon – Thank you so much for taking the time and energy for all this!
Some follow-up thoughts…
Agreed. In any health care undertaking (and life in general ), this is true. I guess I was thinking of “getting started” parameters (e.g., people who have had success with _____ have used time periods from — to — hours, x to y times per week.) Of course, that’s the purpose of this forum and such a study – I get that – it’s just that there are SO MANY permutations and combinations that a starting place seems to minimise risk of overwhelm and drop-outs.
I love this. Words to live by for every health intervention, IMHO. 
So, yes, the simple advice I give may be buried on the lentgthy post, but basically a good place to start is (using the model M1 or C5 is the same):
–Default protocol: Omni8 (or just the one protocol on the A9, which is Omni8)
–Default intensity (9 on the M1 or “H” on the A9)
–Place coils on opposite sides of where it hurts if possible, otherwise side-by-side. Always bumpy sides of coils away from the skin.
–Do not expect a buzzing or shocking feeling. The effect is that pain slowly fades away, but you should feel no stimulating effect directly.
–wear it every day, for 6 to 8 hours per day, or longer if possible.
–Wear daily for 2-3 weeks.
–Change batteries every 3-4 hours for best results.
–Pay attention to how the pain changes over time.
Then, try adjusting things, take note if it works better or not (may take a few days to be obvious), adjust and so on.
7 Likes
Love it - thanks 
Have you tried the array?
It is smooth on both sides.
Would a mattress that covers your legs , or legs and Torso or the whole body completely be something that you would enjoy sleeping on?
I rented a BEMER mattress to test PEMF, before buying DR. Bob’s device.
I found the full body mattress very comfortable and easy to use.
P.S. I am hoping to get Dr and Mrs Dennis to make a larger mattress available. There small four array mattress is so comfortable and convenient. I use it every day, whether in bed, at my desk or even at Coffee shops.
1 Like
My following statement might be co-incidental, however it would be cool if it would be proven to be accurate.
The placebo effect for several conditions I was told by a brilliant academic , researcher and clinical M.D. with whose specialty was not limited to but included CVD to be around 40%. Notice how close that is to 37.5%!
FYI: A study of R.A, showed the placebo effect to be between 40-60%
https://ard.bmj.com/content/74/Suppl_2/263.1
(While these are not meant to be fully inclusive of all “placebo effects”, they are a beginning point.)
It seem that the results of the PEMF study might be explained as follows:
Short term application of PEMF resulted in a success rate of 37.5% possibly being explained by the placebo effect.
THe long-term application of ICES had success rates very significantly above the placebo effect.
1 Like
That is interesting.
I didn’t go find the study to see what they used for the placebo versus NSAIDs, for instance.
Earlier this year, I was listening to researchers talking about a study where people found out their “dirty genes” and which diseases they could expect to have a greater level and when they found out, the hormones in their bodies responded in ways that just knowing that information created a very real physical negative response.
That discussion was a while back, but it is an interesting discussion.
Sometimes, I wonder how much of the Placebo Effect is something like the people actually drink water to take a pill. (Some of us never drank water at all for our whole lives. I do now, but I went decades without it.)
Or just lowering stress by giving hope.
My brother is in an immunotherapy study for kidney cancer right now and he was told by the doctor that he has a 50% chance of getting it again within 5 years and that sentence increases things like stress, but the immunotherapy study gives a 50% shot that something good is happening. Plus, they are scanning his whole body every 3 months or something like that and insurance pays for all of it. His bones get scanned. His brain was scanned. They made sure he didn’t have a tumor anywhere else. That process gave him some relief.
Relief itself might help his immune system.
I didn’t tell them, but he water fasted for 48 hours before his surgery and that might be cheating. If his Heme Oxygenase-1 went low enough for his T-Cells to see the Cancer, plus, he might have gotten rid of some of the bad mitochondria, plus got rid of some of the viruses, bacteria and fungi, plus all the other benefits from his short stint in Autophagy. I have to listen to Longo again because I don’t know if water fasting for only 48 hours is enough that he would have had his body replace his whole immune system. 5 days would have been nicer, but he couldn’t do it. He did 48 hours and that already made me happy.
So sorry to hear about your brother.
Dr. Thomas Seyfried , I recall recommended 7 days a year as a general rule for regular people.
There are some Clinicians who specialize in fighting cancer with a keto diet, and provide the structure and support …
Dr. Thomas Seyfried, I recall said that paleo-keto diet is effective for 80% of cancers.
Glad your brother had two days of water fasting.
PEMFenthusiast,
My brother is failing at Keto. Both of my brothers are failing at Keto.
That is okay because there are other mechanisms.
Immunotherapy is a pretty good one.
The thing about listening to all of the doctors is that you can learn, for instance, that eating blueberries doubles your Natural Killer Cells and that eating cardamom causes the Natural Killer Cells to work doubly effectively.
Dr. Li said something interesting in one of his talks, he found out that immunotherapy only works if the people have the bacteria from eating either pomegranate seeds or cranberries.
Dr. Seyfried said that anti-angiogenesis was a failure at cancer, but Dr. Li has his own before and after scans and the Skeptic community points out that almost everybody failed at Dr. Seyfried’s study. They didn’t do the diet well enough and dropped out. The few who did the diet reversed cancer.
Dr. McDougall reverses cancer, too. People have reversed Stage 4 cancer with his diet. Dr. Fuhrman has had people come live in his house and he fed them his food and they reversed Stage 4 cancer. Gerson has so many testimonials of people who have reversed cancer that way and most of them came after failing at medical model.
Dr. Goldhamer has reversed cancer with just plain water fasting and I will say that I question Dr. Seyfried whether his was the diet or the water fasting or the addition of the glutamate inhibitors, which most people don’t have access to or was it the addition of hyperbaric oxygen, which makes Keto 30% more effective.
Keto Pet sanctuary has ONE famous healing for my dog’s cancer. ONE. They do 90% oil in their diet. If it was 80% effective, they should have ten thousand testimonials by now because dogs are fed by owners.
In truth, the Purdue University study is the one I look at because they lowered the rate of cancer by 90% in dogs by feeding them VEGETABLES with their KIBBLE. For many years, the longest living dog ever according to Guinness World Book of Records was VEGAN.
I think he got passed recently, but anyway, water fasting worked so fast that I didn’t have to worry about the fact that my dog shunned raw and shunned freeze-dried food and shunned oil and vegan turns out to be what he would eat while he was sick, but my opinion now is that I was feeding him kibble without vegetables is how he got cancer. (And, yes, I didn’t try vegan with him until after he got cancer.)
People would shoot me for trying vegan with my dog, but I found people who healed their dog’s cancer using vegan and I found people healing their dog’s cancer using water fasting and I found Keto Pet Sanctuary and the one dog, which they healed - but they used hyperbaric oxygen, which I didn’t have access to and my dog wouldn’t eat oil and if you are not in Ketosis, which some people genetically can’t get in Ketosis in the first place, oil has been tested and it all makes cancer grow. Gerson says, that her father tested all of the oils and that they all caused cancer to grow except flaxseed oil, but there is a video of a woman who used flaxseed oil and quark and she had her breast cancer start growing faster.
The study Dr. Greger showed with CBD oil is that it sometimes shrinks cancer and sometimes makes it grow faster, but in the study with patients, the cancer shrunk for 2 weeks and then grew like gangbusters.
I am just in favor of learning things from every direction and knowing which things people can and cannot do.
I have a few friends who are close to 400 pounds and they failed at Keto over and over again and when I was a young person, I failed at Atkins.
I lost weight, but eventually started getting cravings and failed.
Whole Food Plant Based deals with hunger based on Calorie Density versus by Ketosis lowering hunger. Basically, because carbs only have 4 calories versus 9 for fat, if you stay low in fat, you can eat over twice as much and most of the whole food has so much fiber that it deals with hunger that way.
If my friends and family can’t be disciplined enough at Keto, they really would be better off learning about calorie density and using that, but they have to try this their own way for themselves and my job as a friend is just for them to know that if they fail at this, there are other mechanisms.
1 Like
Excellent post Deb.
I agree that if someone is failing a dietary regiment they should either modify it or try something else.
Also agree that its not so much which regiment you use, but how well you execute that regiment.
I do not believe in any unrestricted calorie diet.
A plant Keto diet, combined with a water fast is an intriguing option.
The mechanisms understanding allows one to guess with more confidence and use a strategy that potentially combines complementary strategies to increase the probability of success.
Measuring with blood or other tests regularly is very important as a means to keep score.
I do not care which diet gets the desired result, or which part of the stategy was most responsible nearly as much as achieving the desired objective.