Flux Health Forum

ICES vs Fisher Wallace/Alpha Stim CES treatment

Hi Bob,

I just bought an ICES A9 to use on my head to treat brain fog and migraine. I already feel some relief after just a couple of days of treatment. But I also suffer from insomnia and anxiety. That’s why I’m interested in Fisher Wallace or Alpha Stim both claims to use micro dosage of CES to treat insomnia, anxiety and depression. They claim to stimulate the brain to produce certain hormone…

I’m wondering if you know much about that technology? Is it good to use both ICES A9 and a Fisher Wallace or Alpha Stim device, or is it better to use only ICES A9? If only ICES A9, do you think it will treat my insomnia overtime? Thank you so much in advance for your help Bob!


People respond differently, so please be cautious, but in general, ICES-PEMF works well without interference with other devices. ICES-PEMF is also ultra-low power total output (I have eliminated the 99.8% of the non-beneficial EMI from the waveform), so it will not “force” or “overpower” any biological process with excess EMI.

You didn’t ask this, but I will share the following: If I understand correctly, the Alpha Stim is basically a tVNS device (a TENS Unit with ear clips that does Transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation). There are other posts on this forum explaining how to make one for a total of approx. $60 USD. I made one for a friend who was looking at buying the Alpha Stim. My family and I have each used the tVNS device daily for 2-4 treatments at 15 minutes each day for 3 months and it did increase our heart rate variability (which is a good thing) and lower our stress. It did induce a calming effect and helped train our bodies to more readily shift from a sympathetic dominant state to a parasympathetic state. The first time I used my homemade tVNS device, I felt extremely tired within 5 minutes of using it and slept great :wink:

@krissully is a practitioner with considerable experience and has generously offered, via DM to those that request it, to share detailed documents on how to make your own tVNS unit plus explanations of the how tVNS works and general guidelines on usage (length/ usage per day/ how many days to try), devices that can help you measure the progress you are making (this is how I learned about the Garmin Vivosmart 4 device that tracks heart rate variability) and what to expect when using it.

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I have been researching tVNS since 2015. The cost for the commercial products was/is outrageous. The original human study done in conjunction with Leeds University made there own tVNS. The only difference between what I have been using and Leeds’ is that they took the time (and hassle) to glue a double sided clip so it is one clip per ear. BUT the two clips per ear are an exact equivalent in function and easier for the non-dremel/non-glue crowd. My clients have been using the ‘put together tVNS’ for more than 6 years with great results/benefits. Human health goals need to be NOT a way to make millionaires, personal or institutional, but a way to find our birth right of regeneration, joy, peace and community.
It is impossible to heal when in the sympathetic (fight, flight, freeze). The body goes into the Integrated Stress Response (ISR). The link is to the old theory https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat5314 but newer science suggests the ISR may keep us alive but STOPS healing and regeneration. In reality ISR (sympathetic) stops full repair and instead uses inflammation and scarring to ‘bandaid’ the injury.
Example: Famine causes the integrated stress response and leads to starvation and death. Fasting leads to body regeneration. (have clinical data on this). Note that one’s attitude about one’s state determines outcome.
Using tVNS with any of the ICES/PEMF products would maximize the beneficial effects. They are not the same though both use ‘currents’. Do let me know if you need instructions or have questions. To ‘rest in rest’ is the parasympathetic and our ability to ‘trust and rest’ has been damaged greatly since the Industrial Revolution with great damage to our bodies (and the planet). Hope this helps someone/anyone. To get the instructions I need an email address. LOTS of companies now sell a device to put you into your parasympathetic. The put-together is one. $60 for parts rather than $300-$1000. Hmmm… PS I sell NOTHING. I am simply providing free instructions about one way for humans to find there way back to their own humanity, healing regeneration. We are earthlings. We need to find joy in living. We need to heal.


Thank you Bob! I appreciate your response! How do you think Vielight photobiomudulation brian stimulation therapy complimentary to ICES treatment?

Thank you Krissully! This is very informative and yes I would like to learn how to make my own tVNS device.
Thank you again for your time!

Thank you so much for sharing TajD!

If Vielight works for you, then it will almost certainly work better when combined with ICES-PEMF.

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Thank you Bob! What’s the best way to use both? Should I use both device simultaneously, or right before/after each other or separately at different time of the day?

well that is an excellent question, and I do not know that anyone has systematically studied the optimal order and timing. So I think it comes down to practical considerations, such as “is it even possible to use them at the same time?”

Speculating now, based on how I think PEMF interacts with the body and with other types of devices, I think it might be best to start with PEMF and use it for 15-20 minutes before starting the second device (of any type). I say this because my current thinking is that PEMF works synergistically with almost everything else by reducing the background chronic inflammation. This allows the cells and tissues to respond with the least amount of dysfunction caused by the background inflammation. I get reports from people all the time that suggest this is the case, for almost everything from nutrition to acupuncture to surgery. By this means (I think) PEMF is helpful for almost everything, to make it work as well as it can.

So, taking into account the observation that it takes about 15 to 20 minutes for the effects of PEMF to really start working maximally, and these inflammation-reducing effects seem to be persistent for hours at least, it makes sense to me to begin with PEMF, then follow on with anything else you are planning to use synergistically with PEMF.

The question of whether or not you should continue with the PEMF so that you end up using both at the same time is, I think, more of a practical matter. Basically, my opinion would be to continue using PEMF simultaneously as you add the second device if it is practical to do so.

That is all just speculation on my part, and I could be wrong, but I don’t see any way that the simultaneous use of PEMF with anything would cause a problem. So the worst case in my opinion would be that it is simply just not optimal.

Of course the best information on this will be when people try this and then report back here for detailed discussion. :wink:

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I have a ten year old AlphaStim that I used way back and it did seem to help insomnia. It was also way cheaper back then. I stopped using it tho because I found that a combination of Binaural Beat meditation and Kava worked better for me. I also have several A9s and a C5 but I use them for tendon issues only so far.

Hi Krissully,
Are you still offering the instructions for the home made A-S system? If so, I’m interested. Thank you!

Hello! I have been using the ICES for awhile but have also really wanted to include tVNS! I saw this thread and that you can help get a device set up to make that work. Is there a way to link to the instructions? Or can you direct me? I’ve tried using the ICES for VNS but I’m unsure how effective I’m being for that specific purpose. Thank you so much for any info you can pass on!