Flux Health Forum

Have a suggestion for a category not featured here?

I see.
It might be interesting to set up a category here with a few voluntary, ongoing Polls with simple yes/no or multiple-option answer?

One poll question of interest to me:

Do you or not feel some kind of “energetic charge or well being” from using ices that is not necessarily related to specific physical improvements, and may not be felt after every session but has accumulated over time?

That is basically the plan. For the fluxhealth web page, we will develop studies and surveys that people can participate in, and everyone can view the results. I have a lot of detailed plans for this basic strategy, and several other serious researchers/scholars are on-board. So, we will see where it goes.


Stacy Ravid and I just posted our first interview on her dissertation:


enjoyed it…
you really hit the nail on the head about how chronic pain, day in day out, without relief can be so isolating and often callously dismissed by others .

I loved the sentence, “If placebo effect was going to work for us, it would have worked a long time ago.”

Bob & others: Diabetic nerve damage in feet or how people who have diabetes use / benefit from PEMF, if at all.

PEMF may or may not be of benefit directly to diabetes (type 2), this remains unknown so far as I know. But several clinicians have reported the very positive effects on some of the problems associated with diabetes, such as diabetic neuropathy, and diabetic foot ulcers. For example: Dr. Pawluk had posted some very impressive results showing the reduction of a severe diabetic foot ulcer to almost undetectable after about 2 months, when using one of our earlier ICES-PEMF devices (a gen 3.0 ICES device which I built for him many years ago)


I am not sure how to answer that. Years ago, before I started with the ICES, I was a junk food junkie and also was high-fat in my diet and high-fat, plus sugar led to so many symptoms of diabetes, which I had my head buried in the sand about. I had horizontal nail ridges, seriously freaky eye problems (and I am not talking vision) I was thirsty all the time and had such brain problems and other symptoms of out-of-control diabetes, including neuropathy, but I didn’t get tested back then. I went Whole Food Plant-Based, no oil and that diet has a mechanism to reverse Type 2 Diabetes in a few weeks and neuropathy goes away. Dr. Barnard is one of the doctors who tested it and he has a book on how to do it that way. (Note to the Keto people, there are different ways to do things and there is a site called Mastering Diabetes.org and that is the Whole Food Plant-Based method, which is run by a Type 1 Diabetic who lowered his sugar going high-carb. There are something like 3500 people who are part of that community. Many of them switched from Keto and got rid of insulin resistance that way. Again, I know that there is a war between those two communities, but there is more than one way to do things.)

Anyway, all of my Diabetes symptoms went away, including the neuropathy.

There is a study, where 21 diabetics who had neuropathy for up to 10 years, 17 of the 21 people had their neuropathy improve within a few weeks. I think it was 4 to 16 days.

Whole Food Plant-Based tends to be good for pain-relief, and pretty good for reversing Type 2 Diabetes and the Mastering Diabetes site considers it good for Type 1 Diabetes, but I don’t understand the mechanism for that. I do understand the mechanism for Type 2 Diabetes. For most people, it turns out that their pancreas was filled with fat, which was plugging things up. Once the fat starts to come out, their Beta Cells work again and suddenly people can eat high-carb and not spike their blood sugar. Water fasting can accomplish the same thing.

I did watch a documentary where they took a group of Diabetics and that one was raw vegan and all but one of the people were off their insulin within a week. The one who couldn’t get off was a Type 1 Diabetic, but his need for insulin dropped much lower.

And, yes, many people get off of insulin going Keto, too, by a different mechanism, but my diabetic friends who tried Keto weren’t disciplined enough in their eating and Keto can increase insulin resistance, so if people cheat they end up in trouble and that is what happened with my close friends.

I got rid of my neuropathy and one of my friends who was probably never in Ketosis, and some people can’t genetically get in Ketosis in the first place, but she has really bad neuropathy now.

Oh, I was going to add about the ICES. It increases circulation to the limbs and that is critical with Diabetes. Genuinely critical. I had lent mine to my cousin who is a Diabetic and a smoker just for the purpose of increasing blood flow to his fingers and toes.

Also, there is one testimonial on-line with someone with Diabetes who had kidney issues and his lab results improved using PEMF.


I went over to the Mastering Diabetes site and they recommend a C-peptide test.

They say that if your score is greater than 4 ng/mL you would have a 95% chance of reversing Diabetes with a Whole Food Plant-Based diet.

If your score is 2 to 4 ng/mL you would have a 50% chance of reversing Diabetes with a Whole Food Plant-Based diet.

If your score is under 2 ng/mL you would only have a 5% chance of reversing Diabetes with a Whole Food Plant-Based diet, but that still is a chance.

They say that test differentiates between Type 1, Type 1.5 and Type 2 Diabetes and if people have Type 1.5, they still have a 50% chance of turning it around, but over time it gets worse.

what has been your experience with this device? have you had any benefits?

Are you suggesting that Type 1 diabetes eventually develops into Type 1.5 and then to Type 2 Diabetes, in a similar fashion to, say, stages of cancer (Stage 1, 2, 3, 4)? And that if this is the the intended meaning, that there is some sort of dietary intervention that can halt or reverse this progression?

If I had seen this post sooner, I would certainly have responded.

Briefly, Types 1 and 2 diabetes are entirely unrelated diseases. Type 1 involves an autoimmune reaction which destroys insulin producing cells in the pancreas, so the body can no longer produce insulin. This typically happens in children (thus “juvenile diabetes”)

Type 2 diabetes is entirely different: it involves insulin resistance… the body still produces insulin, but the cells have become resistant to it (thus “insulin resistance”) after years of constant high levels of insulin due to eating too frequently (thus; "adult-onset diabetes). Unheard of in children decades ago, due to eating habits (children having constant “snacks” every 45-90 minutes), even young children are now developing “adult-onset” diabetes (type 2).

The only plausible corrective action for Type 2 diabetes that I have ever heard is the practice of intermittent fasting or even prolonged fasting, on the hypothesis that insulin resistance arises from eating too frequently, which results in sustained levels of insulin, leading eventually to insulin resistance. The theory goes: allow breaks from the insulin response (give yourself at least 14-16 hours between some meals several times each week), thus allowing insulin levels to return to normal, low levels, between meals.

KEY POINT: it is not really the type or amount of food that counts, so much as the frequency of eating.

This seems plausible to me, I have reversed a pre-diabetic condition myself by doing only this (intermittent fasting), there is growing clinical evidence in support of this hypothesis, and it is theoretically plausible.

I could be wrong, but lets keep in mind, I am a medical scientist, with NIH funding and an ongoing grant to study Type 1 diabetes.

So far as I know:
-There is no such thing as “type 1.5” diabetes, though there is “type 3” diabetes, which involves the recently discovered insulin-producing cells in the brain, in a complex multi-feedback loop with the larger pool of insulin producing cells in the body,
-Type 1 diabetes does not progress into Type 2 through stages such as “type 1.5”

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I was using my Vielight nasal devices for “theoretical” benefits as related to aging, but not for treatment of any particular condition. That said, I stopped using them right at the on-set of the pandemic. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but I am concerned about the possibility of any viruses in my nasal passages proliferating at a faster rate by shining a light into the nostril. I diligently mask when I go outside, which is not often. But I cannot be sure those devices won’t do harm in the event I manage to pick up some airborne particles. I could be completely wrong on this.

That said, I have used my whole body RED light at few times, (too hot now in the dead of summer) and found significant relief from the M1 for a sprained finger caused by a door slam!

ok i was thinking NIR would mean no heat, but after thinking about how the visible red doesn’t have heat, i would only guess NIR would put out SOME heat.

I’ll have to experiment with red light therapy. I’m especially interested in the nasal application…

I have been using both the 633nm daily for a couple years and the 810nm intermittently, with no discernable ill effects. In fact, the 633 seems to mediate my peripheral vascular disease to the extent that I am lethargic if I don’t start my day with a session. I don’t notice any effect with the 810, which I is probably why I haven’t been as diligent using it, although I should use it. Anyway, bottom line is I have never felt any negative results from using them, although I admit to having no idea how they might impact viral growth.


“Thus, the findings presented here identify a novel physiological effect of magnetostatic and electrostatic fields that may be exploited for the automated long-term, noninvasive management of T2D and potentially other redox-related conditions.”

Exposure to Static Magnetic and Electric Fields Treats Type 2 Diabetes.
PubMed abstract: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33027675/
Full text: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(20)30490-3

-> -> -> *** “… STATIC FIELDS …” *** <- <- <-

Not pulsed fields, this is entirely different in every way.

Also, these are very new results, need to be replicated, which will be nearly impossible since I have studied the methods section of their paper very closely for several days now, and the paper does not contain enough methodological detail to allow a close replication. So, even with this, the science is not yet at all nearly clear, and it is very distantly related, at best, to any form of pulsed electro-magnetism.

Also, this may not be possible to replicate, because people have done similar experiments in the past and shown no effect. So this may be an irreproducible result.

But it is an interesting paper.

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Seriously wanting whole body bone stimulation for my Osteoporosis. Is buying a “whole body” PEMP system the only way. Looking at something more than spending hours and hours moving a single A9 or similar device all over from body part to body part. So again, is whole body system the way to go? Anyone thanks.

I would say that might be useful if you could find a PEMF system that was really “whole body”. The problem is the physics of magnetism: it is very difficult to subject a large volume of space to a nearly uniform magnetic field. There is a strong incentive for PEMF marketers to claim that their system is whole body because that moves their systems into the $20,000.00 to $50,000.00 category. But when you actually measure their fields, you discover what the physics already tells you: it is not what they say it is.

Its like this: if you can see for yourself, you can check a product for honesty. But if you can’t see it, can’t measure it, and can’t verify it, then you have to just trust them to tell the truth. For example, if a grocer sells you a dozen oranges, you can open the bag, count the oranges, and verify the sale for yourself.

But this is not the case with magnetism. You can’t see a “Gauss”, most people (including most PEMF manufacturers) can not measure the Gauss level of a magnetic pulse, and it is difficult to say exactly what the magnetic pulse should be in the first place because the bio-magnetic science is incomplete.

So, honest PEMF marketers remain largely quiet on the subject of “whole body” PEMF. Dishonest PEMF marketers will tell you anything you need to hear to get you to write a check.

The truth of whole-body PEMF is somewhat disappointing: it is possible to make whole body PEMF machines, but they would need to be very large and complex, and they would cost a lot of money. The less expensive ones that claim to be “whole-body” are not, but it is hard for the consumer to prove this. So, by charging a lot of money, they fool some people into believing it is true.

So, if you decide to go with a whole-body system, I suggest you shop around to find a reputable clinical PEMF facility. Treatments will cost a lot, but will be far less than the cost of the same system for home use. And be sure to quantitatively track your progress with bone density measurements, to be sure that you are getting a real benefit.


I will say that I own 2 ACES and a C5. My first experience with PEMF was with a Magnatherm machine and then I got certified by Pulse Centers. The “full body” system seemed to help me make huge improvements in my 40 year battle with Lyme Disease and co-dysregulation along with other supplements, and therapies.
I do “feel” that the there is a much more powerful punch with Pulse Centers (table & chair) equipment and that I require less time on the equipment to eliminate pain or stimulate regenerative benefits.
I have also used IMRS which my bf says works great for him, but I feel nothing at all.
Are there questions to ask sales reps., that may help us truly determine if “high power” units really are? Are you saying that the size coil or wires have no relevance on output and efficacy, Bob? Is it fair to say that The C-5 has just as much power output to effect the whole body as sitting on a solid state, large coiled chair or bed and that the number of coils have no relevance if the output is somehow otherwise equivalent?

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OK, now that’s an intelligent and sensible way to look at this issue. Thanks.

My opinion is that what really matters is simply whether or not a particular PEMF system works in terms of actually helping people. For most commercial PEMF systems the answer is apparently YES, they actually are all pretty much helpful.

But then you get all the layering of misinformation and fraud from PEMF marketers to gain market share, and the lack of technical standardization of PEMF systems, and the fact that the science of PEMF effects on biology is absolutely not well understood.

So, my opinion is that the best way to look for PEMF systems is to talk to people who have actually used them, who do not have a financial bias. Talking to sales reps will probably get you nowhere, because they have carefully-crafted answers targeted to capture your business.

So, I would say that clinic owners with a huge financial stake in their PEMF system, and PEMF sales reps, are the worst source for honest information, no matter what questions you ask.

Also, it is not quite true that the C5 has just as much power as any other system. The technical fact is that it is 99.8% more efficient, so it can be equally as biologically effective by using only 0.2% of the power of the huge but inefficient PEMF systems. It is sort of like driving to the grocery store: you do not need the most powerful car to get there, and more powerful cars do not necessarily get you anywhere faster.

It is also true that a lot of the effects of much more powerful systems are biologically different than the effects of much lower power, more efficient systems. More powerful systems can, for example, have a numbing effect. This will reduce pain, but only by blocking the signal, not necessarily by promoting tissue healing.

I really think it all comes down to this:

Can you find an unbiased person who has used the system who can tell you how well it works?

Is the company reputable? Will they stand behind and support their products?

Is the price reasonable given the cost?

Then you can think about whether your lifestyle works best with large PEMF systems, or portable (personal) PEMF.

The honest people I have talked to, mostly smaller business clinicians, tell me that combining a few treatments from a large PEMF system in a clinic plus daily treatments with portable (Personal) PEMF works best overall to get the best possible long-term clinical outcome.