Flux Health Forum

Electrolytes ... any one(s) stand out with pemf?

Brain Injury and Neurodegenerative Diseases
#1

Hi @Bob,

in optimizing for pemf to work well in the body are there certain electrolytes or things in general to keep in mind to ensure we are “sufficient” (being careful not to overdo it w/supplementation)?

personal anecdote:
my dad had a stroke some 25+ years ago… in the last 2-3 mo’s he’s been applying coils at night along the right side of his body where he has little mobility and sensation. Since doing so, his massage therapist he goes to about every 2 weeks had noticed recently that his flexibility has really improved in the areas where he had applied the coils.

I recently had him supplement w/magnesium threonate for about 4-6wks. then, in the last 1.5 weeks, I had him use the coils on his head - he chose temples. about 4 days ago, he began feeling pain… he described it as nerve pain at his ankle, hip…other areas of his body that come and go - very uncomfortable for him and affects his walking. this pain is a similiar sensation he had experienced when feeling and mobility was coming back to a different part of his body about 6mo’s+ ago when we were experimenting w/pemf on and off.

I’m wondering if threonate had contributed to the recent changes, but there’s no way of telling if this was a change that was happening/coming along before all this consistent pemf and threonate supplementation started.

I began asking about the role of electrolytes or any nutrients that we should consider to ensure we are not deficient in when optimizing for pemf therapy / benefits. However, w/the above anecdote, I guess this could be a topic for brain injury, so this is why I put this post in that cat.

As i understand it from what i’ve read/come across over the years, being well hydrated and balance of nutrients/electrolytes coming from my green smoothies on a regular basis, I didn’t think much of what kind of environment my body should have thru diet to optimize for benefit of pemf. As I’m looking to help others with this, I began to wonder what things/supplements might we consider to enhance pemf. I was thinking magnesium would be something important to supplement with since most are deficient thru diet and the wear/tear (stress) of the daily routine.

Do you (and anyone else who’s been experimenting and have experience) have any thoughts on this?

thanks!

#2

My top suggestion would be, as you mention, magnesium threonate. I would still suggest that, as well as maybe zinc with quercetin and vitamin C, and D3 with K2. I generally view ICES-PEMF as mostly “permissive”, allowing normal cellular function, so I think of these as “rebuilding and growth” substrates, and demand for them may go up somewhat as the tissues shift to rebuilding mode.

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#3

do you think @Bob there’s any evidence or likelihood that our cells retain any of the energy put out by pemf (your tech and others) or is it just used at the time it’s being generated?

I’ve been thinking about how supplements like vitamin d are used and retained by the body. i wonder if some people notice benefit of things like magnesium (as noted in reviews on Amazon) bc some may be more deficient than others, so they don’t notice… wonder if that’s a factor in some of the mixed reviews aside from possibility of quality of the product.

anyway… started wondering if the body being exposed to enough pemf in different parts of the body (ie, thru pemf mats etc) over time gives a cumulative benefit effect in addition to the little aches and pains we deal with. :thinking:

#4

Would magnesium glycinate be roughly equivalent in benefit as far as ICES-PEMF is concerned?

#5

threonate passes the blood brain barrier, so you’re getting more up there from threonate than any other form.

#6

I am not an expert on dietary supplementation, but I have looked into the subject a fair amount for my own recovery, so this is what (I think) I know:

As @OptimalHealth points out, Magnesium Threonate is known to pass the blood-brain barrier more effectively than other forms of magnesium. So I make sure to take a formulation that has magnesium threonate.

I tend to use variations of supplements to assure that I cover all the bases because different forms or even different manufacturer’s products may work better for some biological processes, tissues, bio-availability, etc.

The general rule of thumb for magnesium supplements is that it is important to take organic compounds such as magnesium threonate, taurate, glycinate, or citrate. These reportedly have much better bioavailability.

Inorganic forms of magnesium are not well absorbed, such as magnesium oxide. Think of this more as an industrial waste byproduct, and not as a dietary supplement. Its bioavailibility is reported to be less than 2%, and toxicity is sketchy.

As you know, I am always on the lookout for poorly-designed products, and this is a case where I use the presence of a useless or dangerous compound to raise a red flag about a supplement. In the case of magnesium oxide, if any supplement contains that form of magnesium, I immediately reject the entire supplement, because if they are that careless, then I can only wonder what other huge and careless mistakes they make when formulating their dietary supplements.

In fact, if a multivitamin or other supplement contains magnesium oxide, I immediately:
1- Flag that supplement as “Never buy, warn friends away.”
2- I will then steer clear of other supplements from that manufacturer
3- I sometimes even blacklist the source of that supplement. If they would sell me one bad product, then how many others are they trying to push on me?

An example is the huge bottle of multivitamins my wife bought at the beginning of the pandemic (March 2020) from one of those big-box-discount-warehouse stores. I even think it was their store brand. Any way, it had Magnesium Oxide. I calculated that this 1 kg (huge) bottle only actually contained the equivalent of 5 tablets of properly-formulated magnesium. So, you would need to consume the entire bottle to get less than 2 days worth of magnesium in your diet.

In the case if magnesium, I use this supplement:

NOTE: I have absolutely no conflict or monetary incentive, and I am not promoting this product. I am simply stating that this is the one I use, and the one I provide for my family.

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#7

Well, my thoughts on this topic diverge from both the mainstream and alternative thinking on the subject.

Basically, I do not think PEMF directly energizes anything in the sense of charging a battery. I think most of that discussion is based around indirect sensations and marketing. I think people feel better when using PEMF, therefore some ascribe this to being more energized (I feel that way), and from that common experience, a fraudulent marketing campaign is easy and seems to appeal to people.

But I think the effect of PEMF is indirect. I think it is more of an information signal than a source of direct energy. In broad brush strokes, I think it works like this:

PEMF signals cells to shift into a non-inflammatory, non-degenerative state. I hypothesize this is mediated through activation of trans-membrane receptors that sense either (1) aqueous ion flux, or (2) conformational distortion of bound charges, for example, bending or twisting a trans-membrane protein (just as an example). These effects arise from induced E fields acting on charges within the oligomolecular paramenbranous space, and may involve signals as small as single ions (similar to voltage gated channels). Currently we have no instruments to measure this low-level ion flux/displacement induced by an E field parallel to membranes, so no one has observed this effect directly (yet). Solve that one and you get a Nobel Prize. If you want two Nobel Prizes, like Marie Curie, then identify the target (my guess: G-proteins), molecular mechanism, and elicudate the second messenger cascade.

Admittedly it is just easier to think that cells are being energized. In a pinch, I guess that’ll do :nerd_face:

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TEMT versus ICES-PEMF
#8

…continued

@OptimalHealth, so answering the question about accumulating energy:

I don’t think the energy from PEMF is accumulated directly, as in “charging a battery”, but there is strong evidence that the signal is persistent (the effects of PEMF can last hours or days) and that PEMF contains an information signal (as described above) that causes cells to switch state toward growth and development.

Whether it is a cumulative effect or a threshold effect is still in debate, but I think the data suggest a threshold effect. In a way similar to acupuncture, it does not need to be applied to the entire body. Rather, it mainly appears that it needs to be applied to the correct location, for example, the source of a pro-inflammatory signal such as a focal chronic injury.

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#9

i would change the thread name if i could to include “supplements,” but I’ll add this here anyway.

i have finally gotten around to reading up now about boron and wish i had started this earlier. oh well, i guess the fact I’m starting now is good enough. boron is another mineral like magnesium that can be in deficit from lack in our diet. boron works well synergistically with magnesium, calcium, d3 and k2… the benefits in a nutshell include:
bone and joint health
cell membrane health
sexual hormonal balance
memory and cognition health
antiseptic properties (antifungal notably among others)
helping immune system

here’s a good summary paper for more details:

boron seems to be most noted and used by the natural health community primarily for bone and joint health, reducing inflammation and mitigating symptoms of arthritis

still reading, but the clinical and anecdotal evidence is hopeful.

#10

anecdotes and studies seem to suggest some potential benefits of boron… some notes about boron here:

Boron is a naturally occurring mineral that is found in the earth’s crust and is also present in small amounts in certain foods. It is an essential nutrient for plants and may have a range of health benefits for humans as well.

Some potential benefits of boron include:

Improved bone health: Boron may help improve bone health by increasing bone density and reducing the risk of osteoporosis. It has been shown to help increase the levels of calcium and vitamin D in the body, which are important nutrients for bone health.

Joint health: Boron may also help improve joint health by reducing inflammation and pain. Studies have shown that boron supplementation may help improve the symptoms of conditions such as osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.

Cognitive function: Boron may also have a positive impact on cognitive function and brain health. Some studies have found that boron supplementation may help improve memory, attention, and other cognitive abilities.

Hormonal balance: Boron may play a role in maintaining hormonal balance in the body. It has been shown to help increase the levels of testosterone and estrogen, which can be beneficial for both men and women.

Wound healing: Boron may also help improve the body’s ability to heal wounds and injuries. It has been shown to help increase the production of certain growth factors that are important for tissue repair and regeneration.

While boron has a range of potential health benefits, it’s important to note that more research is needed to fully understand its effects on the body. Boron can be found in small amounts in foods such as avocados, nuts, and leafy greens, and is also available in supplement form.

more about boron from Dr. Flechas - keynote speaker:

slides/notes on boron from flechas: