Hi all,
I have a rotator cuff tear (verified via MRI) and I’ll be seeing a surgeon soon. I want to present the option of using the C-5 to heal prior to considering surgery. It will also be a great opportunity to introduce this Dr to this wonderful device (win, win).
Anyhow, I’d like to be able to explain in layman’s (me) term the benefits and power of the C-5 for this condition to an “expert” (surgeon) and sound reasonably intelligent and somewhat convincing. (BTW, per protocol I don’t have a choice, I have to see this Dr) I just wanted to include this in case anyone has questions.
Any ideas? How can I present the C-5 and it’s benefits to a surgeon?
You will be presented with the perennial problem:
For many decades the benefits and safety of PEMF have been clear and available in the medical literature. Yet many mainstream clinicians and scientists refuse to even consider it.
I presented this massive body of scientific work, along with very compelling, third-party, GLP-certified hard data to two dept. chairs of plastic surgery several years ago.
In the face of decades of compelling evidence presented by an expert (me) with additional compelling data from a certified testing laboratory, their response was:
1- a dismissive snicker…
then
2- One said it was just a placebo effect
I pointed out that it was a controlled, independent, certified series of tests on rats
He replied: “Yeah, whatever, it’s just the placebo effect.”
I replied: “94%?!?! Rats?!?! Placebo?!?!”
he said again: “Yeah, whatever, it’s just the placebo effect.”
… more snickering and dismissive murmuring…
This happens with mainstream scientists and clinicians. Either they are open-minded, or they are not. And no amount of compelling data is going to change their mind if they are not.
So, my suggestion:
First, ask your surgeon if he/she is open to discussing PEMF.
If the answer is YES, you might discuss it. If not, I would just say “OK” and then drop the subject.
Trust me, no test, no data, no new study, nothing will change a frozen mind. Nothing. So I advise that if you get any resistance, just drop the subject.
But if he/she is willing to talk, then just talk about it. Don’t try to do anything formal or comprehensive.
My 2 cents.
3 Likes
Thank you Bob! I will keep all this in mind.
THIS is no different when conventional care docs (some) are presented with alternative or natural topics whether about oils, supplements, light, heavy metals, pathogens, etc… if it’s not mainstream, no matter the evidence for even an open discussion with a “might be worth a try,” they’re ready to dismiss it.
yes, I’ve learned not to bother with drs who aren’t open to an intelligent conversation…
your situation with the drs is just outright unbelievable… and example of drs who decided to stop learning after they got their titles… pathetic!
1 Like
Especially if money is involved. Pretty much happening now with alternatives to vaccines for COVID. People speak like they have the knowledge and wisdom of time and experience when the pandemic is less than two years old. The dust isn’t settled.
For example: decades old Ivermectin. Too early to tell but seems to work for some people in the US, India, Mexico, and Philippines. Time tested/cheap/unpatented/2015 Nobel prize winning drug but if you mention it now your like some flat earth/bigfoot advocate. There’s been a huge buzz on social media regarding the censorship surrounding the people who speak about it’s use. It’s hard not to be skeptical these days. Obviously the parties that would benefit from suppressing Ivermectin are the Pharmaceutical corporations because there’s no money to be made on an old cheap unpatented drug.
Apologies for the rant.
3 Likes
Hi @SuuuzzzyQ, I didn’t have an MRI, but injured my shoulder playing baseball around 20 years ago. I would feel it catch/click when I would do arm rotations. About 1.5 years ago, I used my ICES M1 for several weeks (Omni 8, power 9, 8+ hours a day) on my shoulder and it got rid of the issue entirely. My shoulder feels great. Based on my experience, if I had a MRI confirmed torn rotator cuff, I would surely use the C5 in parallel to exploring surgery options and monitor my progress and possibly delaying/ avoiding surgery altogether. One thing I have learned from my specialist doctor friends - they have their specialities and are paid to use their specialties, not really to consider alternative hyper affordable options like ICES PEMF. And unfortunately, given the high costs of their specialized medical degrees and residencies, there is no economic incentive to explore things like ICES PEMF. However, one of my specialist friends was glad when the ICES PEMF M1 stopped his wife’s bone on bone jaw pain; but he didn’t become an advocate or use it himself.
3 Likes
Suzy, Several years ago I had a situation similar to yours, major rotator tear, mainly the result of a number of falls over time. My Functional Medical doc advised an appointment with an Orthopedic doc for assessment, which was surgery. I had been looking at stem cell option. Instead I chose use of an A9 for a number of months, at advice of the FM doc, keeping me out of surgery. To this day I feel minor discomfort, but through regular use and exercise, I don’t regret my decision. Best, going forward.
i wonder why your friend wouldn’t be an advocate or fan of ices after that… maybe they figured it healed on its own, which it technically did (i guess 
)
interesting (lack of) reaction your friend
Agree. I think @Bob summed it up quite well:
“This happens with mainstream scientists and clinicians. Either they are open-minded, or they are not. And no amount of compelling data is going to change their mind if they are not.”
Forgive my pessimism, but it’s based on MUCH reality…Your allopathic “expert” surgeon 1) Doesn’t want to help put himself out-of $500,000 to $1,000,000 annually…2) Could not care less about “alternative” therapies, which he or she’s been brainwashed as a “true believer” to scoff and ridicule…
After three-quarters of a century of life here on the Big Blue Recycling Center, I can fully attest to the above statements. Just try, you’ll see. “No proven study” they’ll say…Wait for it.
@TajD, I have an injury to my shoulder, possibly rotator cuff, unverified by MRI. I tried using the M1, Omni 8, level 9 with stacked coils for a few hours at a time, and began to get some positive effect, but I struggle with how to keep the coils in place using the elastic band included or wedging it between my shoulder and the car seat on long drives. It’s hard to keep in place. How did you keep it in place for 8 hours a day and how did you configure the coils/placement? Thanks!
Hi @CajunBiohacker, I used 3M Transpore Skin tape to tape the coils to my shoulder.
I also use it to tape my mouth shut when I sleep to ensure I breathe through my nose (after reading James Nestor’s book Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art).
After 3 years I still have tape from this box at the link below. It has served both use cases (appending ICES PEMF coils to various parts that don’t do well with the ace bandage wrap as well as taping the mouth shut) quite well. https://www.amazon.com/3M-30707387065950-Transpore-Surgical-Clear/dp/B0771MF579/
2 Likes
Thanks, @TajD. I use a paper-based surgical tape for mouth taping (which I also started after reading Nestor’s book). I can try the plastic version you have been using for coil application. Did you apply the tape directly to the skin, then coil, then skin? Any issue with the tape damaging the coil coating? Did you just use during the day or could you sleep with the coil attached to your shoulder? Also, did you use the coils stacked, side by side, or “sandwiched” across the front/back of the shoulder? Thanks!
Most of my coil sets are wrapped in self adhesive a certain width apart to for example stack, be side by side, or a couple inches offset side by side, or sandwich in between feet, wrists, etc. So for shoulders, the tape is over the adhesive bandage binding stacked coils to the front of my shoulder over the area of rotator cuff pain. I am now a big fan of 24 7 coil use personally, so at the time of my rotator cuff injury I used it during the day, but now I would also use it at night. I used to feel the coils would keep me up at night when using during sleep. Now I can sleep just fine with them and feel very rested and alert upon waking up. I like the extra 8 hours I can get from using them when I sleep.
Which tape do you use? I may try that!
1 Like
Thanks, @TajD. As it turns out I happen to have some 3M Transpore tape and have started experimenting with attaching the coils (already wrapped and “protected” in self adhering elastic bandage material). It’s a bit tricky to install alone in certain areas, but with some patience and enough tape I have mostly been able to get it in the right places. The paper tapes I have used for mouth taping are Equate brand (through Walmart) and CVS’s generic brand. Both say paper tape for sensitive/delicate skin. If you get chapped lips or have issues with the tape pulling your skin off anywhere, you might experiment with these. I haven’t tried in place of the Transpore yet on the back of my shoulder, but I suspect it may not adhere quite as strongly as the paper tapes are designed to be a little easier to remove on thinner skin areas. I have ordered some extra coil sets and may experiment with trying to sleep with coils in place after they arrive, but wearing for 8-12 hours during the day may be enough if it’s too uncomfortable for me while sleeping. Thanks again for sharing.
1 Like
I’ve used Velcro tape and small Ziploc bags to hold my coils in place.
Velcro the bag to where i need it to be.
however, for shoulder, i have found great success just hanging the stacked coils draped over my shoulder under my shirt, and it stays in place fine. no need to use Velcro or bags when hanging on my shoulder
2 Likes
Thanks, @OptimalHealth. I am still experimenting, but the tape recommend by @TajD has been working well combined with the self-adhesive wrapping material recommended by @Bob. I’m still playing with the orientation of the wires and found the extension cord for the coils very helpful in provding more flexibility in draping wires across the body and into convenient pockets for the M1 signal generator. I haven’t seen many pictures from people showing how they have actually attached the coils, so I have added two here. I’m a very visual person.
1 Like
Visuals are very helpful, thanks.
1 Like
Totally agree on the long wire coils so the M1 can be put in the pocket. Based on all the ailments I have used the M1 for, I have multiple coils pairs of each size - it really does help to have that flexibility depending on the injury.
1 Like