Flux Health Forum

Brain damage affecting motor skills

Brain Injury and Neurodegenerative Diseases
#1

A friend of mine had a brain aneurism that apparently runs in her family. She went in for surgery, and shortly after went home to recuperate. Unfortunately, she had to return to ICU for further monitoring because she lost sensation in one of her arms.

Now she is back home again, but having difficulty with motor skills, both with walking and moving her arm. The doctor who had performed the surgery concluded that he must have nicked the brain, resulting in her motor skills being affected. The prognosis does not appear good for her: it will take lots of rehab and a slow recovery if at all.

My question is, can the ICES PEMF help her in this?

#2

Sorry to hear that. We’ll never know until she tries it. I think it’s worth a try given what you’re friend is about to deal with. The ICES devices aren’t that expensive and it’s a one time thing that is kinda like a swiss army knife. People use it for all sorts of things. Robert has two videos that deals with the brain. This one is for Parkinson’s treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyanBH-ncE. The other one is for chronic TBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iQARsjN6SY. I’ve used them as reference for how to position the probes. In my experience, it worked very well for my backpain, wound healing. I’ve even tried it on a skin burn and it worked very well.

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#3

I take it TBI is short for traumatic brain injury?

I know the ICES devices are not expensive in contrast to other PEMF devices and more importantly, the ICES is much more effective than anything offered commercially out there. I am currently fortunate to own an M1 and use it 24/7 for all kinds of ailments. Even if it were, I would think the investment is worth it, given her current physical condition.

If my friend were to try the device, which one should her husband buy for her? What intensity and what protocol? Where to place the coils? For how long per session? They don’t speak English well, so my first challenge would be to first explain it in their language, and secondly to teach them how to use it.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

#4

It depends on the needs of the user. I have the M1 and it’s great due to it’s versatility. It’s small enough to be considered wearable. The more expensive devices accept more probes and is compatible with the deep field coils. It would be nice to have both and try the deep field coils.

If you’re bold enough to buy one of these devices, you should be willing to experiment. Please refer those videos and it will cover the placement of probes, protocols, and duration. I’ve watched most of Bob’s videos and I found them all very informative and helpful.

#5

I have only the M1 so I don’t know anything about deep field coils. How are they different? I have watched Bob’s videos and do know about placements, just don’t know which one to apply for brain injury or what intensity.

#6

Bob shows how to place the coils in this video

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#7

It doesn’t appear that you’re understanding me. I need to give my friend instructions on how to use the M1. Just telling her to experiment is not going to convince her to make the purchase. There are 15 levels of intensity on the M1. For example, I use an intensity of 10 for my spine but 5 for my abdomen and 10 for my knees. I can’t tell my friend just experiment with different intensities and coil placements. She could be working on this forever with different combinations and never get it right!

Honestly, if I were her hearing this, I probably wouldn’t make the purchase either.

@Bob, could you chime in on this? Thanks.

#8

Reading through this thread, I think I understand enough of the discussion to give an opinion. This is what I am thinking:

When using any ICES-PEMF device, the main effect is due to the waveform shape, which is calibrated and fixed in each device, so that cannot be adjusted. Empirically, for any given coil placement configuration, the pulse waveform is responsible for about 85% of the biological effects of ICES-PEMF. This seems to be pretty universally constant. The remaining 15% of the biological effects seems to be more a function of the exact anatomical location, nature of the injury, and individual sensitivity to PEMF. But these lesser secondary effects can be important.

For example, when using the device on the head, it may also cause brainwave entrainment, so in this case the frequency of the device is more important to consider than it would be for using the device on a leg, for example.

For this reason, I generally use Alpha Wave protocol when using the device on my head, which delivers a biologically active waveform and pulse rate to reduce inflammation and pain, but the frequency sweep of Alpha Wave will have the secondary effect of a generally pleasant brain wave pattern, which for most people is described by a state of alert awareness.

Generally, it is wise to start with lower intensity and shorter duration times especially when using ICES-PEMF on the head.

Taking all of this into account, what I would do for this specific application is set the M1 as follows:
Alpha Wave
Intensity = 5 (relatively low)
I would begin by limiting exposure time to 10 minutes, and if tolerated well, increase by 5 or 10 minutes to build up to 2 hours or more of use every day. Intensity can also be increased carefully if tolerated well.

But then you have to experiment, as @patient9 points out, since people have different individual responses. It does not take “forever”, it usually takes three or four adjustments to settle on a setup that works well.

Let me emphasize: I am NOT trying to score a sale. I do not just say what people want to hear in order to sell them something. And there is absolutely no fixed prescriptive guidance such as “pulse pattern X will treat or cure injury Y”. ICES-PEMF is entirely experimental, and anyone who is uncomfortable with that should definitely not use ICES-PEMF.

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#9

@Serenity I wasn’t confident in giving you specific instructions because I’m personally still experimenting myself based on the youtube links I posted. I thought by watching those videos you’d be (or your friend/friend’s husband) able to just follow along and try things out. Also read up on @Martin posts. It will inspire hope in their challenges. It really drives the point of trying things out for yourself and being having an experimental mindset. Document the experience and share it.

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#10

The M1 works amazingly well. You don’t need months of experiments to figure out what works. With my mom, I very quickly had a general idea. Then it’s down to fine tuning.

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#11

I know @Bob you are definitely not trying to score any sales, that is why I believe so much in your integrity, and neither am I trying to sell this on my friend, but I truly believe in ICES-PEMF and the contributions you have made to society just with the ICES alone.

But at the same time, I don’t feel comfortable telling my friend, “Here, try this, just experiment on your head and see if it will do something for you.” In everything I have read about PEMF, nowhere do they say there are any side effects, why else would I have already bought three different ones for myself and several on the requests of various friends!

I have no doubt, that the ICES PEMF, by far, outweighs the other commercial brands out there that I bought before discovering the ICES just from my experience alone, so I don’t need to be sold on that either. But trying to convince a friend who knows absolutely nothing about this, is not technologically savvy or knows anything about science… well, in her shoes I would hesitate with anything that might mess with my head, too. She’s also very saddened and depressed by her state and I don’t know how to reassure her. Considering that I am so ignorant of science as well, and I have to break it down in very simple terms in a language that I don’t know well, it makes it doubly challenging for me.

Not that I’m blaming anyone, just trying to keep the instructions as clear and simple as I can and yet be able to convey the essence as accurately as possible with my very limited linguistic ability. Sorry, if I sounded frustrated. I have no doubt if this doesn’t work for her, at the very least it will not hurt her, but honestly, from all that I have seen so far, I still believe there will be some benefit, I just have to figure out a way to reassure my friend however best I can.

And no, @patient9, my friend (and her husband)'s knowledge of the English language is very limited, the videos would be too difficult for them to manage and in fact, might overwhelm them, which is why it befalls on me to break it down for them. Thank you everyone very much from the bottom of my heart, and especially @Bob for understanding. Yes, I just want to get them started and from there, modify as needed. And yes, @patient9, I have read Martin’s posts — that was how I first got started on buying the ICES M1 for my friend’s Parkinson. No one needs to convince me on the ICES because no one is more convinced than I am that it works!

#12

In my experience, friends and family fall into 1 of 4 categories

  1. trust my detailed analytical nature and due diligence and experience with products
  2. are open minded generally and willing to try something for the price point of ICES PEMF which is quite reasonable in developed countries on average given it is a one time cost (compare this to the average cost of a monthly supplement over a couple years)
  3. are desperate (chronic pain) and willing to try anything that could possibly help them
  4. have a belief system that a pill can solve problems and an orthogonal healing modality, energy based medicine, is not to be trusted.

I haven’t been able to nudge a close family member who falls into #4. The many friends and family in #1- #3 end up trying ICES PEMF and find it helps them and then they share their experiences with their friends.

Not sure where you friend falls on that spectrum, or maybe elsewhere I haven’t listed. I am sorry to hear about the surgeon’s mistake. I do wish her healing and success.

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#13

Thank you for your kind thoughts. I totally agree with you @TajD. I don’t think my friend falls into #4. And I don’t think price is an issue either, as the family is fairly well off.

However, language and ignorance are the two main issues, but to complicate things, I’m also not supposed to know about her problem — she has a strong sense of privacy and she asked her husband not to tell anyone, but… obviously her husband entrusted us with the information, probably thinking we would know something that might help her as we dabble in alternative medicine and have helped his daughter’s health issues in the past. So I will tell her husband as best as I know how and then leave it up to him to let his wife know that he “discovered” this device that could possibly benefit her. That’s as best as I can manage and then hope for the best.

#14

…And no, @patient9, my friend (and her husband)'s knowledge of the English language is very limited…

That makes sense now.

#15

yes, that does clarify things, thanks.