Someone recently recommended to me Specialized Pro-Resolving Mediators for inflammation / innate healing boost.
Are you familiar with these? Very expensive, but they highly recommend taking when dealing with pain, pre/post surgery, etc. I’ve been taking for a couple days - we’ll see if I notice anything.
@Dr.Friesen Have you had any success using ICES PEMF for your extruding discs? Looking for more anecdotes as a friend is in a similar position and I am assessing as whether to recommend it for this.
@TajD I had an updated lumbar MRI two months post starting ICES which, unfortunately, relative to my previous MRI ~4-5 years earlier, showed worsening DDD, disc protrusions, and even deterioration of the actual bone (vertebra). This of course was not caused by the ICES treatment. That being said, I still use my M1 daily for almost 24 hours per day. It still works well. I would estimate it reduces my pain and increases my functionality by about 30-40%. I paid an external spine expert (http://chirogeek.com) to review my MRIs and he was amazed that I could function at all. He also predicted more serious problems within the next 10 years which was depressing. But this encouraged me to keep doing what I was doing (minus certain exercises like squats, running, etc.) and to keep using SAM-e and my ICES M1 unit. I walk around with minimal pain (unless I do heavy lifting or walk, stand, or sit for too long). I attribute this primarily to my M1. I encourage anyone with significant back pain (or any long term pain for that matter) to get an M1. I often wish I was aware of a brief video or scientific review article that I could send to people to help convince them. So long story short, I would highly recommend the M1 to your friend. I just wish I knew about this technology earlier. Hope this helps.
@Dr.Friesen Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. I am sorry that you are in pain and have experienced worsening DDD on the MRI. Pain reduction, even at a minimum, would be a huge plus for my friend, so I will recommend they buy and self experiment with the M1.
I wonder what an MRI would look like for you in 2 years after 24x7 M1 use. Too bad MRIs are so darn expensive.
Are you using the M1 default of OMNI 8 power 9?
Have you tried 850nm infrared therapy (several uses a day for 10-20min per use) as well? Wondering if upregulating energy will further help.
This is the one I bought to use on my joints in parallel to using the M1
https://www.amazon.com/ABI-Light-Therapy-850nm-Infrared/dp/B07SH2GHP6
@TajD Thanks for the supportive comments. I live in Canada so we don’t have to pay for MRIs directly. I will likely get another one within 5 years.
I also use infrared. I have a similar light at the same nm and I also have a full body panel that combines red light and infrared light (Platinum LED’s BIO-600: https://platinumtherapylights.com/products/bio-rlt?variant=12496929095746). I don’t use them as frequently as you note though. I find they do help but not as much at the M1. I also end up having trouble sleeping when I use the infrared lights too much. But I may consider using my smaller handheld (https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-mini-830/) for shorter frequencies (e.g., 2 x 10 mins/day) like you noted.
I also have infrared head units that I have in my practice (NiagaraNeuropsychology.com) and at home for myself. These are the Vielight Neuro Gamma & Alpha. In addition I use the Vielight 633 nm intranasal unit now daily to help keep my immune system working well (given COVID),
As for the setting I use on the M1, I mix it up. The most effective though are OMNI 8 and C5. But I also use the A9 and P1 (?) settings, again, to mix it up (i.e., prevent habituation). However, overnight I use delta as it’s less likely to negatively effect sleep (and I feel may possibly enhance sleep) AND it uses much less power (i.e., battery) and so lasts the whole night. I keep the intensity at 10.
For some time years ago I had been concerned that maybe PEMF was just masking pain, and like other “pain killers”, could prompt you to maintain a lifestyle that was damaging tissues.
But since then it became clear to me that much more fundamental healing was taking place, not just pain masking.
This was (once again) verified for me when I got detailed MRIs for my left hip, in late 2019. I asked the MRI technician to see if he could also image my lower spine. He was exceptionally cool and got great images of my hip (as prescribed) and my lower spine (bonus!). I reviewed these in detail with the ortho and my physician, who noted that my most recent detailed lower spine images show degeneration normal for a 50-year-old man… not the tangled mess that had been evident on earlier images.
So, clearly, in my case, there has been a fundamental healing and not just pain masking. It was a slow process, but at least it was a healing process, and not a degenerative process. Personally, I attribute this to (1) ICES-PEMF, (2) supplements, (3) adjusted lifestyle: no more heavy lifting or very heavy physical work, (4) nutrition, and (5) time, about 6 or 7 years.
Bob: Some time ago I had asked about any physical lumbar improvement from the ICES, and now you have it “in MRI writing”!
I am fused from C3 to T1, and it only took six years before I had deterioration below one surgery and needed another Right now only C1 to C3 is not fused, and it does not look “pretty”. Compared to your healing, I am unsure if I could achieve anything with ICES but to lessen the rate of deterioration by reducing inflammation (I am 71).
I have the A9 which I am using every night on the C1 - C3 area. As a best guess, do you think that switching to an M1 and using different frequencies would provide any significant benefit above using the A9?
just a general observation of pemf and varying degrees of success with using… in particular with bone, joint muscle, etc repair…a variable that might need to be accounted for is raw material/nutrition available for the body to use/optimize. when we consider the facts that 1. 1/3 of our protein is made from collagen; 2. that we lose about 1% production of collagen after age of (as early as 20) 25; 3. collagen is also used/depleted by external/environmental/stress factors; and 4. collagen sources from food aren’t as abundant in standard diet… maybe supplementation of nutrition/raw materials (such as collagen and other nutrients body may be deficient in) can enhance healing.
i personally get my collagen boost (evident in my skin, hair, nails, joints, etc health since taking) from organic silica sources… biosil is one such source, but a literally dirt cheap and effective source has been good grade de (diatomaceous earth)…
afterall, the body can only work with what it has available onhand
Good suggestion. I have a big bottle in the closet.
I don’t think you need to spend the extra money on an M1. Most of my personal recovery has been with an A9 or earlier generation, so my best guess is that should be sufficient. If you happen to have an M1, it is nice to be able to control intensity with finer granularity, and switch between pulse patterns to see if anything works a bit better. But I don’t think it is necessary.
Very interesting with respect to holding the adjustments. I haven’t thought of that. I am struggling with not holding chiropractic adjustment. I have been getting adjustments to manage the sharp pain, especially in my neck and hip. I think I picked up some lumbar injuries more recently. I do need to use it before and after my adjustments now.
Yesterday I was in a lot of pain in my lower C spine. I usually use the ICES with the velcro strap but because I bought some tape at the advice of others on this forum to bind the coils to my shoulder, I decided to put the coils on my lower neck using the new tape. It made a major difference right away. I don’t know if it’s because I finally put the ICES coils at the right place or because the tape gave it some stability/pain-reducing effect.
In terms of pain, what I’ve found to help include:
I suspect that my chronic pain may have some autoimmunity traits to them because things that reduce autoimmunity significantly help. It might not apply to everyone. I haven’t experienced a lot of benefits with LLLT in terms of pain but I still use it sometimes.
I am excited to hear this. I have only been using the C-5 for about three weeks and I’m astounded by the results I’m getting. I have degenerative disc disease / osteoarthritis which has caused chronic low back pain for 20 years. I’ve tried every kind of body therapy, all of which helped with short-term pain management, but with no significant resolution. I also went down the rabbit hole with functional nutrition and herbal supplements, and I found a few things that lowered the inflammation and gave some relief. Still, that did not entirely resolve it. Next, I went to a chiropractor for lumbar traction, class 4 cold laser, and PEMF on the Pulse XL Pro. This combination gave me new pain relief that I had never achieved before. Still, some of the pain lingered.
My experience with the Pulse XL Pro got me curious about wanting to own a PEMF device to continue treatments at home. I was initially taken in by the idea that I needed an expensive, high intensity device, but your educational information set me straight. I don’t know anything about this topic, but I decided to believe you and take a chance. I jumped in and bought the C5 right away and it is the best investment for my pain that I have ever made. I don’t even know how to adjust the settings yet (I will learn as I go). I just run it on the Omni 8, and I have been wearing it every day 4 to 6 hours a day. I use stacked coils positioned on either side of the vulnerable discs. I don’t even know if I need to stack them for this particular issue, but in only 3 weeks of doing this, 20 years of chronic pain is almost entirely gone. I have never felt this level of relief with anything.
I also purchased a Saunders at-home lumbar-traction device because the chiropractor told me that I can gain back some height between discs and correct the herniations. I searched around and found that there was at least some research confirming this. So far, traction seems to be helping, and overall I am just so thrilled with the C5 results. Thank you for what you do. I have a lot of gratitude to finally be pain free after so many years suffering
@Angel108 That is incredibly awesome to hear. Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experience, usage, and results on this very high quality forum. I too have been amazed at @Bob invention and educational efforts. May I ask how did you learn about the ICES PEMF C5? A friend, youtube search, google, etc? Also how long did it take for you to go from the day you learned about ICES PEMF to purchasing the device?
@Angel108, I am very happy to hear that ICES-PEMF technology has helped you finally break free from your chronic pain. Thanks for letting all of us on the forum know.
Just FYI, I also use inversion/traction (Teeter) from time to time to help unload and re-lengthen my spine. I found it very helpful. Initially, years ago, I used it almost daily. For the past several years I only use it once every 6 months or so, so I think I have had some healing/disc recovery. Spinal healing is a slow process for sure, but it is way better than slow degeneration.
I found the ICES PEMF through google search when I was browsing different PEMF devices. Somewhere along the way, I landed on this forum and read through some of the posts for information. Also came across the YouTube information, which was extremely helpful in convincing me. It only took a few weeks for me to pull the trigger and make the purchase, but I did spend time watching some of the videos and reading posts here. Also, my husband helped tip the scales in decision-making because he was extremely skeptical about the $10,000-$30,000 devices and had many objections and criticisms about whether or not those are priced correctly for what they are. When he saw saw the YouTube videos about ICES, he liked what he heard in that regard. He is using the C5 also for cancer treatment recovery and noticing small, but gradual improvements. Thank you for asking.
Greetings,
I’m new to the forum and am seeking some assistance please. My mom, 80, a number of years ago had spinal surgery, during which she had screws and plates installed to support her lower back I believe T3/4 - S1.
For well over a year now she is awakened during the night with what I’d describe as “violent cramping” of her foot, thigh and hip. As you can imagine this leaves her quite unrested and now very, very frustrated. No, alternative modalities she’s tried have brought any relief (HBOT, chiropractic, massage, cranio-sacral therapy.) She was just to an accupuncturist who told her, she should go back and see her surgeon, that he’d have at best a 5-10% effectiveness if there were any.
I’ve come across Dr. Dennis’ PEMF tools, coupled with his own experience and wondering if anyone has any knowledge of someone with severe nerve impingement having any relief using this modality (model of use, time, placement of coil(s), etc…)?
Thank you very kindly. I’m nearly at my wit’s end thinking of ways to help her get a decent night’s sleep on a more consistent basis.
Thank you for any and all suggestions, direction and insight.
AND, YES, I understand this may not work, is a personal experiment journey to be taken on as such and there are no guarantees here either.
While my experience with this is entirely anecdotal, and based on the reports of others to me, I would say that the use of ICES-PEMF can be very helpful with nerve impingement issues if the coils are applied to the location where the impingement is. For some people this is difficult to find exactly, but in your mothers case I thing you have a good place to start. So, my opinion is that it will probably be very helpful.
My apologies for the long delay. Life…Thank you very much for answering my question so quickly. I’m still working on my mom, she’s a bit reluctant at this point.
Please advise, I like to experiment and tinker. I like the idea of the M1’s variability. In the description, the M1 is noted as only being able to utilize 1-pair of coils, where the A9 is capable it seems of splitting this so that two double coils or the 2x2 arrray can be used.
Is the M1’s output (not sure this is the issue), capable of the same arrangement, a splitter with 2-sets of doubles or the 2x2 array?
I’ve primarily orthopaedic concerns at this point, though, as I stated, I like the idea of the variability of the M1 and budget is a concern at this point.
Thank you very kindly again…
The output capacity of the M1 is limited by the battery. The M1 camcorder battery was selected for this design for ultra-portability, not ultra-power.
You could use a splitter from the M1 (I do not advise doing this but it is possible) by powering the M1 from an external battery power module or a USB charger port (via a USB-mini-B cable)
Then the source impedance of the power supply would provide sufficient sustained current to support more power at the output of the M1.