Flux Health Forum

Suggestions for Fibromyalgia type symptoms

Pain and Inflammation
#1

Hello,
My name is Doug Eisemann and I am brand new here on the forum. I am 41, and have been dealing with what can best be described as Fibromyalgia-like symptoms since early April of this year, although a fibro diagnosis has not been formally made.
I purchased a second-hand A9 unit in the hopes that it may be able to offer some relief, when most other things I have tried have not seemed to have much effect.
My problems began quite suddenly on April 9th with a feeling of tingling and stiffness in my hands, which quickly also spread to both feet. Within days, I was experiencing tingling as well as stiffness in both legs.

To keep things relatively brief, the symptoms persisted, despite the usual battery of neurological tests, MRI of brain and cervical spine, many blood tests, etc. all showed nothing out of the ordinary.
My primary doctor only offered a prescription for Duloxetine, and chiropractic adjustment helped in other areas, but not for the primary symptoms.
Currently, I am experiencing sometimes intense tingling in both feet, as well as very distressing soreness and stiffness in both legs. Hands and arms are less affected, but still uncomfortable.
In addition, my sleep patterns have become completely disrupted since about the beginning of June, making the overall symptoms much worse

I have been working on managing stress, diet and other avenues that may help, but I was wondering if anyone could offer some direction on how best to start experimenting with the A9 unit that may be beneficial for symptoms that seem to affect all body extremities in my case.
I have only had the unit for 2 days, and have experimented at medium power with a opposite-side coil placement on my head, but I really don’t know if there may be some other placements or techniques that may be valuable to try.
I realize this is just an experiment, and ICES may not be the right choice, but I would greatly appreciate any feedback from people that may have gone through something similar.

Again, thank you in advance for any pointers and information. Being an electronics guy myself, I personally find PEMF/ICES fascinating and am really hoping it can help at least a bit in my case.

Best Regards,
Doug Eisemann

#2

Based on my own experience with fibro:
Use HIGH intensity or X-High (H or X)
Place the coils on opposite sides of the most troublesome area (forearm??)
Make sure the bumpy sides of each coil faces OUT, away from the skin
Use the device as long as you can every day (at least 6-8 hours/day, more if possible, and during the night if possible)
Change batteries frequently, at least every 3 or 4 hours, to get full effect.

Hopefully you will see results in the area being treated within 2-3 weeks of daily use.
If so, you may need more systems to cover all problem areas.

That’s what I did, and I was able to end a rapidly developing and horrifying attack of fibro, which started in my forearms but rapidly started to spread all over.

Try to resist chasing the problem all around your body. My advice: choose the worst or first spot, stay on that spot, and apply ICES-PEMF to deal with it thoroughly. Plan on doing this for at least 3 weeks. And plan to continue using it even after symptoms have abated for an additional week or two, to allow the problem to be completely resolved.

I personally know how terrifying this can be. I really hope this helps you.

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#3

Thank you, Bob, for your insight.
I was not sure if I should start with the head/brain and see if it helps systemically, or go for the areas that hurt most, in my case, the legs.

You are not kidding about terrifying. This came out of nowhere for me (although a long history of stress, anxiety and fatigue probably were warning signs.) I thought it would go away within a short time, but the longer it went on and the worse it got, the more things seemed to spiral out of control, physically and mentally. Going from never being on any medication or being in any significant pain, to this, was a real shock to me.

I am sure it will take time and some trial-and-error, but I will see how the ICES treatment goes.

Thank you very much for your time,
Best Regards,
Doug

#4

I understand what you are going through, believe me.
I would start (as I describe above) with a peripheral approach: start by using ICES-PEMF where the trouble started (in your case, the legs), which is also probably where it is usually worst.

The problem may be central (brain), but I think it is just as likely to be due to inflammation at the location where your trouble actually started, then the inflammation spreads to other areas. In that case, it is not central, it is peripheral. So, I suggest by starting with where the problem started for you (legs) and really sticking with it as long as you can, every day, for at least 3 weeks. By then you should start to see improvement.

And if it is peripheral, and it did start due to inflammation in your legs, then it is likely when you reduce that, the other areas will also improve without even needing to treat them specifically.

This seems to happen because one chronically-inflamed location (usually an injury) in the body tends to eventually cause inflammation throughout the body, but a thorough recovery at the initial source seems to quench that overall body inflammation. Its sort of like an “inflammation alarm” that you turn OFF at the source.

That’s the way it worked for me, and that seems to work well for many other people too who have tried it.

You may be different, so if that does not help you within about 3 weeks, then we should start thinking maybe something more central (brain). That’s possible, but I would try the peripheral approach described above first.

#5

Thank you again for the suggestions! I know it is tempting to try to throw everything at this at once, but I know from experience, that usually does not end up being successful.
I will start with a targeted approach at the sources of the greatest discomfort and go from there. I just wish there was some way to blanket-treat my entire legs as they often get almost unbearably stiff and sore.

Best Regards,
Doug

#6

My initial suggestion would also include ruling out any excessive and sometimes unknown exposure to mold. However absence of respiratory symptoms does not automatically rule out exposure.

#7

@Bob ok there you go again directly addressing an issue that I have experienced. In 1985 I ruptured my L5 disc and pushed my right hip socket and joint towards my spine.

In 1992 I suffered a debilitating attack of EBV, which lasted 2 years. Now I have either CFS/ME or Fibro or…

Combined with very low GABA production and dopamine production issues.

I use your device to energize my L5 sacrum area with a quad coil.

My hope is that the PEMF will still help to mobilize cellular level inflammation and flush it into and then filter it out of my blood stream. Even after 36 years later than the initial spinal injury.

#8

One of the really remarkable things I have seen again and again, and experienced myself, with PEMF is that it can really help recovery from even very old injuries and chronic conditions. For myself, I have been able to (mostly) fix injuries that were about 30 years old. Some people tell me they have had success with injuries that are more than 50 years old. Most people (including myself) claim to have tried “everything” before settling on PEMF. Then, all of a sudden, they very often get relief and at least partial recovery with PEMF. I would say these people are very much not subject to placebo effect, otherwise something from their list of “everything” would have already worked, and they would never have needed to resort to PEMF.

In fact, I would say that these people (myself included) tend to be highly skeptical, even when something is clearly helping them, so this is almost like a “converse placebo” effect. We simply do not accept that anything is helping unless confronted with massive amounts of hard evidence.

So, even as a very skeptical scientist, I would say that the beneficial effects of PEMF are usually quite remarkable, especially for the most long-standing and otherwise unresponsive chronic injuries.

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#9

OH WOW,

OK I graduated UofH BSEET, studied microprocessor hardware and software deigns and then went to work as a sales professional engineer for Intel in 1982.

I have been using binaural freqs including AV stimulation devices plus Hemi-Sync and all sorts of remedies including about 300 sessions of Rolfing/Structural Integration and hundreds of hours under many deep tissue massage therapists since 1985. And heck yes I’am a DOUBTING THOMAS also when it comes to technical marketing BS.

About 3 months ago, my functional neurologist suggested that I buy an OmniPemf device, Neo Rhythm after I had bought a full body FAR IR heating pad with PEMF. I was amazed at how it affected me and began to realize as Bob has shared with us in an elsewhere post, that he believes that the PEMF vs. CES or TDCS even is often more effective for both slew rate of leading edge of pulse, and that a magnetic field impacts infinitely more conductive brain tissue area than a single either AC or DC path through the brain matter.

PEMF is the first pulsed energy to have a profound effect on me. However the MOST beneficial device to me has been the pulsed red laser energy from an Avant Wellness LZ30z. And as it is most often in life, it is not the tool but how you use the tool that often makes a difference. I watch this guy daily “wake up kids” from a neurological perspective. As an example there is one child who is locked at about 7 months of development in a 90lb 5 year old body. The child has never learned to crawl nor speak and it takes about an hour of INTENSE multi sensory stimulation and the child comes alive from his perpetual state of slumber to work on making more progress every day. Him and his staff spend over 6 hours per day stimulating his body and brain with multiple lasers and other vibrational and electrical current devices.

I am just amazed that Bob keeps posting this stuff! WHY - because I totally believe him!!! He is a daily sufferer fro the physical aspect but some of you may also know that he has written a book describing how he reprogrammed his brain post perhaps 2 known strokes. So yes he always gets my vote based on his search for the most accurate truth that he can understand.

The way he and his partner Mark carry themselves as to open source information for all things PEMF and Brain Gauge, well it is refreshing to see such deep intellectual property being shared so freely and also at a bargain price relative to the costs and efforts to produce plus continue to test and refine said products.

The bottom line for me is this, Bob just secured an order for a C5 and 3 more quad coils for me to use as a large area pulsed magnetic energy field from my sacrum up through lumbar area and into lower rib cage area? I also plan to order 2 sets of his deep coil pairs to like wise use in this described area. To keep in place I plan to use my Copper Fit lower back brace. I then can wear it all night or all day if driving on a long trip.

Mary McMakin, DC, has some remarkable claims as per her pioneering use of micro electric devices and one of her go to protocols esp. for patients with Fibro, was to treat her patients back injuries. She even claimed like Bob did that a trauma to the spine or other nerve tissue can initiate an inflammation response which can enlargen and spread to become a driving factor for chronic fibro and or other serious neuroinflammation creating chronic issues. She would end her fibro treatment sessions with a specific frequency which was shown in lab experiments to melt away scar tissue. And micro current electric therapy is also very dependent upon the slew rate of its leading edge pulse.

OK the above is full of run on sentences/phrases, but you probably get my drift esp. if you have one or more severely injured spinal areas.

I keep getting so much useful information from this forum in areas of immediate concern to me. Thanks again for such open access to conversing with all of these people who have similar health concerns.

Michael

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#10

Ok the “I watch this guy” in my above post is a functional neurologist that I have been using.

hope this clarifies

#11

Interesting… That is something I had not considered before. I went through all the screening and bloodwork back in May and June to try to “rule out” all the major culprits that can cause similar symptoms and nothing of note turned up, including 2 Lyme tests, heavy metals, etc.
As I work in electronics (ancient stuff full of PCB oil, mercury etc.) I would have expected something, but only my aluminum levels were significantly elevated.
What is interesting, and fortunate, is that my Fibro-like symptoms do not include the extreme, widespread pain that some experience, nor the “brain fog” fatigue etc. I do have the sometimes quite alarming sleep disturbances however.
Most worrisome and debilitating, however, is the constant tingling sensation in my feet that works its way up my legs to become a very sore, almost wooden stiffness that I have never experienced before this time.
I wake up feeling very stiff as well. Having poorly slept, I initially feel very tired, but after being up for a short time, I generally do not feel fatigued.

That said, I have had several years of general fatigue and malaise prior to these symptoms, although I generally felt pretty good for most of 2020 and early 21. Anxiety during the pandemic has been through the roof, however.

#12

I also have fibromyalgia. I find that using C5, with two leads at the brain stem and cervical spine, and two leads at the dorsal root ganglion and around my lower back very helpful for systemic inflammation. I do it every morning for at least an hour or an hour and a half while I’m reading email and having coffee. Of course I have other therapies and nutrition and place as well.

#13

I have fibromyalgia too… lurking underneath other auto immune issues that I have been able to overcome. I too am using Duloxetine to control pain. Strangely I saw on a forum someone say that only their Shakti mat gave them relief so I tried it and it really helps… I was waking up without stiffness in my hands even though I was laying on the Shatki mat before sleeping. I too use PEMF but probably not as persistently as Bob recommends and like JillLash mentions I was using it brain stem/cervical spine/shoulder as a lot of my pain was concentrated there… Tapping EFT helps too - a hypnotherapist had me try that, I was skeptical but it did actually help a lot. I also was just reading this article this morning which is interesting https://scitechdaily.com/new-research-shows-fibromyalgia-is-likely-the-result-of-autoimmune-problems/amp/?fbclid=IwAR35gyvi6beoPpOvLjLboDSl9hOeeZIgT0X3_rUZEk49bzVBUh_RITqmie0 I would love to be able to stop taking the Duloxetine but the pain can be intense without it…

#14

Hello Doug,
the very thing you are describing happened to me in 2019. I went through all the testing etc as you did and nothing showed up. I do think stress added to my symptoms. I have since lowered stress, started eating very clean - organic, grass fed etc. I use the PEMF on a regular basis. My doctor prescribed duloxetine also, I did not start right away but finally did and it helps reduce the symptoms so I can function and not worry about the symptoms which of course makes everything worse.
I wish you the best and add prayer.
MLK

#15

My rule of thumb is: Does it help horses? Will pets come back for more? PEMF, microcurrent and red light aces this test. Sounds like PEMF is the more powerful of the three.

Also, I have felt oversensitivity begin when pain has been bad enough for some time. Clipping it off quickly is important in my mind to avoid Fibro getting a chance to start.

#16

I agree with this entirely. Stop it before it progresses.

#17

Is there a full body pad available that might connect to my A1 or independently be used to try on my body-wide 30 years of severe fibromyalgia pain of astoundingly varied types? I’ve tried hundreds of treatments with no success. The pain is tap-out level at times and just getting through the day is often like climbing Everest. Pain keeps increasing with age (now 73) and I now experience pain at night while trying to sleep whereas lying down used to diminish pain. After years of seeing specialists in several areas, I recently found a doctor who is willing to prescribing me suboxone at a low dose, not always effective but, at times, able to dull my pain. The pain/sedation line is, unfortunately, pretty thin. The A1 has helped my trigger finger somewhat and it seems worth trying for fibromyalgia. The Omni and various other brain devices have been ineffective.

#18

I do not make a full body pad, yet, and the A1 can only drive at most 2 pairs of coils.

If you have an initial site of injury, maybe even from 30 or 40 years ago or more, something that maybe never healed fully, I suggest you try treating that point directlyly using the A9. I have talked to many people about this: sometimes whole-body pain develops from one unhealed injury, maybe decades old.

It might take a few weeks of daily use, but that strategy has worked for other people, including me (broken coccyx in high school).

#19

Thanks for your reply, Bob. To make a long story short, not really possible unless you use a brain device. I had severe mono in 1968 (seems to set up many for FM), then got fibromyalgia in 1990 while my brother was dying of AIDS over four years, a terrible emotional stress for me and my family. My initial symptom was severe skull pain that felt like my cranial bones were inflamed and painfully swollen and expanding. Initial dx of Lyme…treated unsuccessfully, seen by Lyme co-discoverer, Lyme ruled out, and "fibrositis ie. FM at time diagnosed. Cranial pain gradually disappeared totally over a year, maybe, never got again until 30 years later when I tried LDN and it bizarrely restarted that pain, disappeared day after I stopped. I am a scientist, spent way too much time reading anything on FM for 30 years, go with the folks who think it’s brain damage in ANS and HPA, hard to target. I’ve looked at body wide mats online, amazingly expensive with varied reviews. At 73, I’ll probably hope my prescriber keeps me on suboxone until it stops working (somewhat) or I throw in the towel. I don’t expect any breakthroughs as almost no one is studying it.

#20

This is challenging and tragic (and all too commonplace yet overlooked by broader society). It’s remarkable how many of us struggle with pain, really tens of millions of us in this country alone, yet we seem to have no voice in public policy, no voice in the allocation of public resources to seriously address this massively widespread issue. Most of us just suffer in relative silence.

With the additional information you have shared, as a scientist I am thinking the issue may be related to centrally-mediated pain (you already have considered this, but for the benefit of the general reader). This is a somewhat mysterious but documented condition where the origin of the pain, as you know, is at least partly central, involving regions in or near the pain centers of the brain.

The classical thinking on this, for about a century, has been that the pain originates entirely from these centers of the brain, and all that is necessary is to localize the troublesome centers and create lesions there. This crude approach did bring relief to many people at the time, but fell out of favor about 60 years ago.

Having discussed this at length with my neurophysiology colleagues (the result was a doctoral student who did research specific to this topic), my impression has become that this is more nuanced than just simple remapping of the pain centers of the brain, synesthesia, where normal sensory signals are interpreted as signals of pain. My thoughts on the matter are that the signals in question are genuine signals of pain from elsewhere in the body, but they are erroneously amplified in many cases of putative “centrally-mediated” pain.

This leads me to think that you are one of the people who fit into the category where you would very likely benefit from whole-body PEMF, to reduce the low-level inflammation common throughout most of us in the later years of our lives, but which is centrally amplified in your case. This is my best guess.

My question to you is this: have you tried high-power, whole body PEMF in a clinical setting and experienced relief? Before you make a major investment in anything like this, I think the most economically-efficient way to proceed would be to try several different clinical systems if they are locally available, and assess each for effectiveness (or not). If one or more of them really brings you relief, then that would be a good place to start formulating a longer-term strategy.

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