Flux Health Forum

Ongoing log of wife's treatment of tendinosis

CRPS
#54

Update 4/22/23: Been using the 8-10 hour/day, 4 coil sock/velcro A9 configuration explained earlier since late October and unfortunately, I see no overall improvement and am giving up. My wife has had ups and downs but if there’s been any improvement, it’s minor. I’ve tried low, medium and high, no difference. Very discouraged, especially since the A9 cured both my plantar fascitis and rotator cuff pain.

@Bob, elsewhere in today’s digest, you suggested using fibrolytic enzyme supplements, such as serrapeptase, nattokinase, lumbrokinase, and maybe also wobenzyme or bromelain, NAC plus L-Glycine for nerve pain and circulation. I’m open to ideas. This is for tendinosis (not tendinitis) as a byproduct of RSD (CRPS) – which is in remission thanks to LDN. Tendinosis is where defective tendon cells reproduce defectively so the tendons have little integrity. Don’t know if these supplements would improve the tendinosis any. Did a google search and I see nothing definitive.

#55

I am not an expert, but I have done a lot of reading/thinking about collagen lately, as well as collagen peptide and L-glycine supplementation. There has been a lot of excellent research lately on anti-aging effects that are clearly visible in people’s skin, and the reasonable extrapolation from those observations is that it would also be very beneficial for other collagenous tissues. I don’t think the benefits to internal collagenous tissues have been quantified yet, but it seems to me that it will only be matter of time before we see very strong data in support of supplementing with GLY. I just posted another reply related to this topic here:

#56

Thanks for the info. Actually, my wife is already on Vital Proteins collagen for her osteopenia, and also takes Hyaluronic Acid and Vitamin C. Not doing NAC or glycine yet but wonder what the safe upper limits are…

#57

I am not sure about “safe” upper limits. I think GLY is safe at any reasonable amount, but I could be wrong. NAC, I would like to know that too. I think guidance on this is a bit sketchy.

#58

Thanks, starting her on NAC and Glycine tomorrow. How much glycine do you take? Vital proteins collagen already has almost 3,000 mg per serving.

#59

I take an additional 6 grams (or more) per day of L-GLY. I discuss why here:

#60

Thanks. I’m assuming no stomach aches – cause I’m seeing that’s a symptom of excessive glycine dosing. Will start with 1 gram and work up.

#61

It apparently happens to some people, not to others. If it happens, try spreading out smaller doses throughout the day.

BTW, this is a side effect of basically every food and medication at sufficient dose for any given person, so it more or less goes without saying I think. As an example, my limit for chocolate peanut butter ice cream is 2 pints in any 1 hour period. So, to get in my daily minimum of one gallon, I have to spread it out during the day. But apparently I tolerate GLY very well (as I mentioned in the link I pointed you to), so I can take at least 10 grams at one time. I have a close friend who seriously needs GLY, but unfortunately he can barely tolerate 1 gram at a time, so he takes something like 500 mg every 2 hours.

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#62

Interesting, thanks!

#63

Hey @Bob, I hope you aren’t really eating a gallon of chocolate peanut butter ice cream a day as we’d like to see you around minimum for another 40 years with your engineering excellence and honesty. :grinning: :rofl: :joy:

#64

Well, OK, the ice cream was a joke, but as I age I really have lost my ability to eat/drink certain foods. For example, fresh squeezed fruit juices really harm me if I try to drink more than 1 or 2 ounces. On the other hand, I can handle dairy products without any apparent problem.

Without getting into the discussion of what is and is not good to drink, my point here is that as we age, it is pretty clear to me that we lose our ability to absorb and process certain types of nutrients. As an example, it has become very clear that older people are really deficient in GLY, just based on skin collagen content (other tissues too, but these are generally less well studied). As much as anything, it might involve a decreasing ability to absorb/transport/process this nutrient.

As in the example of my friend who can not tolerate large amounts of GLY as a supplement… why should that be any different than GLY in collagenous foods?" We may be getting some insight into the fact that for this person GLY is poorly handled digestively, and it only really shows up as a problem when he tries to take a few grams in a more pure form. But for smaller amounts in food this may just be an inability to absorb/transport/process GLY that does not show up as gastrointestinal distress, but the other digestive problem persists.

Of course we could argue that taking GLY in its natural form essentially as long-chains of collagen might make it less of a problem than taking pure GLY. But I think the issue here is pointing to something I have suspected for a long time: we simply do not absorb nutrients as well as we get older. Getting them in whole foods may or may not be the answer. Sure, no supplementation to a rich whole food diet may be the answer when you are 26 years old, but maybe not so much when you are 62.

I am sure this conjures a lot of hate in some people. But growing scientific evidence does show that we really need certain things as we age that we really can no longer get just from diet alone. I am of the opinion that GLY becomes one of these as we age.

Fermented foods seem to be an important part of the answer, but I also am gravitating toward the opinion that supplementation becomes more essential for many people as they age. I am much more inclined to think this way now.

So, I would be very interested to hear if anyone knows of or has experimented with ways to improve the ability to take supplements in bulk amounts, such as several grams of GLY per day, for people who are sensitive. The main way that I know of is to take smaller amounts spaced out throughout the day. Has anyone experimented with trying to combine bulk supplements such as GLY with other foods to aid absorption? Maybe simply combining it with muscle protein or Whey protein would help?

#65

Fascinating info Bob, thanks! Getting back to my wife’s A9 protocol, is it possible that after 10 hours/day for 6 months her body developed tolerance and that she may benefit from resuming after a several week break?

#66

Habituation is certainly possible. I did design the pulse patterns to minimize habituation. Mostly that seems to have worked, but still I think if is a good Idea to take an occasional break, or to change pulse patterns (if you have an M1 or C5), or to change the coil positions from time to time.

#67

Just four A9s that I attached to her socks with velcro. I’ve got a C5 and the coil mat but it hasn’t been practical to use on her for long periods. Will restart the A9s mid-May and see what happens.

#68

I think you are on to something. I also think something like GI MAP with Zonulin provides a lot of actionable insight when properly interpreted. High Zonulin, High Calprotectin, Low Elastase can be in part mitigated by supplements like sodium butyrate, tributyrin-x to lower zonulin and tighten protein junctions, pancreatic enzymes to ensure proper break down of food, among others. I have seen in our family what dysbiotic gut does to a young person on vitamin and mineral levels - entirely deficient across the board. Seems like Glycine is another key part to GI health which makes sense given collagen production is key. This may also explain why taking Perfect Amino has helped my gut health.

#69

Its a topic of importance to health, with a great amount of human need but a paucity of solid information. That makes it crucial for broad and detailed study, but also ripe for fraudsters and charlatans. I need to think about some reliable guidelines for separating the nuggets of truth from the ocean of rubbish science on this topic.

#70

UPDATE: This may be preliminary but my wife’s foot pain seems to have decreased substantially and we are only doing 3 things differently:

  1. NAC 2x/day
  2. 3 additional grams glycine/day (in addition to the 3 grams in Vital Proteins)
  3. Doubled her LDN dose to 4mg. This may be the most significant.
    Notes: LDN was originally used to put her RSD in remission. RSD caused her tendinosis originally. But now we’re thinking her slow healing and tendon pain is actually low-level RSD and that at this point, her tendinosis is triggering the RSD instead of vice versa. Also, NAC is a mandatory treatment in Finland for RSD. We shall see. Have not restarted A9 coils yet, want to see how this plays out.
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#71

have you heard of or tried earthing? it has some very interesting positive effects for pain and inflammation reported by many people… very similar to how people have had great experience with pemf. quite amazing actually. worth investigating and trying out for your wife’s situation

#72

Thanks for the suggestion but as I’ve said elsewhere, we tried an earthing mat for several months, 10 hours a day and it did absolutely nothing.

#73

that’s a real bummer. I’ve been experimenting and what i can measure is interesting. body voltage drops to 0 vs 110mV (after i removed the resistor)… consistently my Garmin watch measured my avg stress level during sleep at 8-12 vs 22-26 without grounding… and that average seemed consistent once i got my setup consistent.

as for what the cumulative benefits can be seems to vary person to person like any natural therapy.

I’ve been doing 2 months now and sleep quality is good for stress but i have yet to notice solid, longer sleep, which is what I’m trying to include too… just weird.

no particular pain nor inflammation to address or test. maybe some leaky gut and related eczema that i recently properly recognized thru gut testing… but dunno if this earthing thing will help.

I’m earthing at 0mv consistently for maybe 5h a day but will try longer to see how that goes. :thinking:

i know earthing does affect numbers, but how it benefits/manifests is not clear nor same for everyone. i think what is measurable is heart rate (hr), hrv (hr variable - which is another value used to measure stress level) and is notably affected. i suspect the numbers that I’ve been reaching are equivalent to relaxation thru breathing or meditation exercises. what i like about it is the set and forget part of the usage.

lastly, these numbers became consistent only when there is good skin contact, consistent thru the night. i used my own copper top setup vs the mats they sell, but i would guess (?) the results should be similar with a purchased setup. the Garmin watch and a multimeter are what i use to measure results and effectiveness.

and yes, not trying to sell it, but just trying to share my experience so far