Flux Health Forum

Nerve Injury - Best Practices PEMF

I had a suspected nerve injury (long thoracic nerve shear) from doing crossfit over 6 years ago… I pursed PEMF as a potential adjunct to other therapies I have attempted.

An expert once told me to not put the coils where the pain is located but rather up by my neck & spine to treat the full course of the nerve at once. I’ve experimented with both and it appears the advice is valid.

Anyone have general advice or experience treating nerve injuries with PEMF? I’d like to start a discussion to ensure I’m getting the most out of my device. I’ve experimented with multiple protocols and power settings (I have the M1 model) and always thought that higher power was simply better until I read otherwise on this forum. I am now trying medium power for a bit and prefer the Omni 8 protocol.

Any input is most appreciated! It’s been a long 6 years of disfunction and I’ve tried nearly every thing under the sun with little progress.

I think that advice is good, and many people (including myself) have benefited from treating nerve injuries “upstream” along the nerve from the location of pain or dysfunction.

I too am looking to treat a nerve injury as a result of a surgery. The damage is to my pelvic nerves, so I need something which will reach deep tissues. Am I better off buying the C5 and stacking the coils. I’m just unsure if the M1 could reach deep into the pelvic tissues.

Although, having reread the above posts if I apply the coils upstream from the injury I can just place the M1 could on the sacral plexus and I can wear that all day then. This would mean the nerve root of the damaged nerve would be getting alot more time with PEMF. Maybe this is a better option then than the C5 which I would have limited time on. I would have to wear it at night to get the recommended 6 to 8 hours.

It is difficult to say exactly what works for each individual for each type of injury. Try not to read too much into the statements on this forum; they are well-intentioned but not proven, and results very widely by individual. Mainly I think you need to try things, take note, and self-experiment to see what works best for you.

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Thanks Bob! Yeah Ive read alot of posts now and think the C5 will be best for me at this point!

I would be very interested to hear what you try and how well it works for you. As you go along, if anything comes to mind I will let you know. A doc from up in MI (Ann Arbor, my home town) just called and he has a bunch of neurology colleagues who plan to try ICES-PEMF for a number of things that are otherwise untreatable or difficult to treat. Some of those cases are apparently post-surgical nerve damage. He says they will keep me informed as they try it on their most difficult cases, and of course I will pass along what they tell me to this forum. He said he has been using the M1 and C5 with the Onmi8 protocol to good effect so far, and his colleagues are impressed enough to try it more widely. That should give us some useful information.

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That sounds great Bob. I’d be very grateful if you get any info that may even be slightly informative that you’d post it. I was surprised how little there was on the topic overall. The damage to my nerves has affected bladder function so I will have a measure that I can track to see the impact ICES has on the nerve function and recovery rate. If you hear of anyone in particular studying pelvic nerve regeneration and PEMF you might let me know. Didn’t find anything on this really. I’ll keep you posted once I get my C5.

OK, well what I know right now is that a few dozen people have tried the device for urinary incontinence (any cause, any severity level) and based on anecdotal reports right now, the rate of success seems to be somewhere in the 50 - 90% range. I have been trying to get a study done on this, but it has been start-and-stop with many problems and delays.

What people try most:
women: trans pelvic placement of coils (front and back, with bladder approximately between), and they experiment with a variety of pulse patterns: Omni8, Schumann4, Alpha-wave, etc.
Men: most often stack the coils and sit on them on their perineum, and use 3 or 4 pulses per second, mostly.
Benefits as reported: nearly 90% for men, women report about 50-50 get significant benefit.
I hope this helps.

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Just received my C5. I’m starting tonight with omni8, intensity 10. I’m using stacked coils on the front of my pelvis and one on my sacral area. I really hope this can help over time!

I have a A9 unit, for incontinence how would it’s pulse pattern compare to using 3-4 pps.

The pulse pattern is different on an A9, but it is almost certainly not an issue of pulse pattern. The A9 would probably work just as well, and since you already have an A9, it would not cost you any money to find out. The only way to really know if it would work for you is to try it.

Hi Bob,

As I suffer from CRPS, due a nerve damaged during surgery, after trimalleolar fracture / broken ankle, I’m very interested in any research, like the one conducted by the neuroligists, that you mention - any news on this?

Kindly,
Carsten

My opinion: you can find a lot of research on CRPS, and some of it has very promising sounding titles, but in my experience, when you look at any of it very closely, these papers have zero practical clinical value. This is the fundamental reason why clinical medicine has essentially zero tools to deal effectively with CRPS: no one is doing effective, practical, usable research on it. The only progress they ever make is the anemic and wrong-minded approach of “blocking” pain, which is based on the assumption that all pain of this sort is anomalous… not really pain … all in your head.

But in my opinion this is really ignorant. The fundamental assumption is incorrect. But because it is usual for researchers to begin with this assumption, they go spiraling off in the wrong direction.

My opinion: CRPS, and virtually all other forms of pain have a real root cause, and it is essential to address this root cause in order to turn OFF the source of pain. It follows therefore that any attempt to simply “block” pain is deeply misguided: it is like putting in ear plugs when you hear a fire alarm. Simply blocking a pain signal when there is a real cause of pain is likely to make the pain get worse over time, as you continue to ignore the warning signal and thereby aggravate the source.

When you look at the clinical course of pain syndromes, this is often what you see:
Block the pain signal, and over time it will get worse.

So, I do not put much stock in the peer-reviewed literature on CRPS, being based as it is on a totally incorrect assumption.

And I am confident that the literature does not contain any “hidden gems” that allow you to easily resolve CRPS, because so many desperate people are combing through this literature every minute of every day, and if there were any real hidden gems, they would not remain hidden for very long.

In my experience, the best way to deal with CRPS starts with nutrition and supplements (D3, K2, Omega 3), but then is greatly aided by PEMF, which data indicates clearly has the effect of reducing pathologic swelling and inflammation, allowing the normal healing processes to resume.

My hypothesis: PEMF reduces inflammation in such a way that tissue healing is facilitated, returns to normal, and thereby reduces pain at the source. But, when properly applied, PEMF does not “block” pain.

In my experience, CRPS is among the most challenging: PEMF needs to be applied daily for several hours, for a period of several weeks. But many people report to me that they have had excellent results when they do this, and I myself have a lot of experience using this approach and have resolved several cases of CRPS for myself. Once you get good at this, and start PEMF as soon as you suspect CRPS is beginning to build up, you can get very skilled and effective at managing your CRPS.

Basic approach: Treat both the area experiencing CRPS and the source, which is often an older injury that eventually leads to CRPS, radiating off in directions away from the initial injury. In your case, you have a clear picture of the exact location of the initial injury. Treat it 2 to 8 hours per day. I do this at bed time. There are no “special secret frequencies”. Just use one of our default pulse patterns: Omni8, Alpha Wave, B5-C5, for example. Try each for a few days to see what works best for you.

Do not think it is necessary to use maximum intensity, start around the default setting of 9 (out of 15).

CRPS is one of the few cases where I do think larger pads can be very helpful. We make these for the model C5 for this reason.

The course of management will look like this:

First week or two: no real benefit is evident… but keep at it daily

In about 2-3 weeks, you will suddenly notice a real benefit, and the pain often quickly disappears thereafter.

This is what I have experienced my self every time, and what people report to me at least 80% of the time.

Can I prove it? No. The word “prove” has a very strict scientific meaning, and strictly by that definition, I can not and will not try to prove anything.

Keep in mind: the FDA accepted as “proven” that oxycodone was “safe, effective, and non-habit forming”. In reality, it is none of these. When people make claims of “proof”, I become more skeptical.

Does ICES-PEMF work for CRPS? You would have to try for yourself. People respond differently, but in general we get 80-99% positive reports for pain-related issues.

That’s the best advice I can give you.

Do you think this technology would help with male urinary incontinence caused by prostate removal due to cancer? Dr. said this often resolves itself within a few days to a few months. Some nerves were removed during surgery.

Some people have good results with UI, other not-so-good. It is about 50-50% success rate, but well worth it in my opinion, given that no other non-invasive, effective treatments for UI exist to the best of my knowledge.