hmm how underwhelming… @BartM however, the device that @LWM was talking about…i wonder in what ways it’s different.
being that ices is low powered , i wonder if that makes any difference and what the effects are relative to time.
the device you’re using to measure brainwaves… is there any way to see if a particular frequency lasts longer when m1 is tuned to that and how that compares to baseline?
again, thanks for your time and sharing!
@LWM, correct me if I’m wrong, but the david delight device doesn’t work on electromagnetism, just audiovisual entrainment. am I right?
well, that’s kind of what I’ve been trying to do, by first establishing a baseline by measuring the brainwaves without the M1 on, then turning it on and off. Sadly, there’s only so much that a non-professional with little to no knowledge of the subject, with a cheap consumer EEG band can do.
If I was to take a guess, i would say that the “underwhelming” results so far might have to do with the waveform more than the strength of the M1.
First of all, the one PEMF device that I know of specifically and solely made for brain applications (NeoRhythm) is much weaker than the M1 (25 gauss).
Secondly, if I was to design a brain entrainment device, the first thing i’d try is a trapezoid or a sine wave, not a short duty cycle pulse wave. Think of it this way: if you wanted to “entrain” a wave into a tub of water, would you take a paddle, stick it in the water and give it very quick, sharp, pulses, with plenty of holding still in between, or would you give the paddle slow, but constant, sine-wave like undulating motion? Which one would you think would be more effective in getting the water in the tub to be “entrained” with waves? So, although the ICES waveform might be very effective for various healing applications, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was exactly wrong for brainwave entrainment.
And I have two pieces of evidence to support this: first, the NeoRhythm device that’s specifically designed for effecting brainwaves is a trapezoid waveform, not a pulse wave. Second, the Bemer device, which I own, which I believe makes a sine wave, clearly affects my Muse EEG readings , even though it’s extremely weak (like 1.5 gauss maybe).
Here’s a short run with the bemer:
Anyway, I’ll keep tinkering with the M1 and the Muse a bit more. Who knows what I might come up on?
my bad…i was assuming pemf and not audio visual… i should’ve reread. thanks for explaining more details of what you’ve worked with and are familiar with!
i don’t know how my m1 is affecting my brainwaves, but i do simply know that the Omni on my gut or forehead consistently give me restful sleeps! I’m gonna catch some zzz’s with my m1 on my liver tonight and get some solid, quality sleep👍🏽
thanks again @
@BartM, in addition to the Bemer and NeoRhythym, have you considered trying the Lumenate app (there are a couple free light/sound programs in the app) while wearing the Muse? I am very curious what the Muse graphs would show.
@BartM THANK YOU! I am also trying to figure out if the hideous expense of the Bemer is worth it. I know it has really helped my overall health as well as exercise recovery with just two sessions a week, so I’m wondering if it’s worth purchasing. When I use the David Delight it has been while using the Bemer mat, so maybe I’m getting a double dose of entrainment that way. I do know it’s made a huge difference with anxiety as well as my foot, hand and knee issues using the Bemer spot treatment as well, so maybe I just need to bite the bullet. I was hoping that the M1 would be a more affordable option that merged the two technologies, but it’s not looking that way…
I’m glad this is helpful, @LWM.
I’ve had a Bemer and used it most days for 6 years+. For me, it seems to be very good at one thing, and not good at all at everything else. I posted about it here: Thoughts on PEMF Manufacturers
And do keep in mind that the Bemer won’t do anything as far as brain entrainment. As I found, it does alter brain waves, but similarly to some of my M1 tests, it does so only with the high (beta and gamma) frequencies. As you know, you can’t pick different frequencies on the Bemer. Also, I still haven’t completely eliminated the posibility of these Muse EEG band results simply showing interference, regardless of whether it’s the Bemer or the M1.
Yeah, the Bemer is wildly expensive, and if someone is trying to convince you of its benefits, they are probably trying to get that MLM money too. But I’m glad you’ve been finding it helpful!
@BartM, thanks for the link. So what has the M1 been really good for in your experience? I’m still very on the fence obviously.
this is off topic, but wondering if you have found binaural beats to help with entrainment?
@OptimalHealth You know, I never tried measuring the effect of binaural beats with my Muse EEG band. That’s a cool idea, and something I’ll have to try. But I have definitely spent a lot of time listening to various binaural beats recordings over the years, including making my own, and haven’t found that they affect my mental state at all.
@LWM, it’s too early to tell. I’ve only had it for just over a month, and I’m using it to address a couple of decade old persistent injuries, which, according to what I’ve learned from dr Bob’s videos and posts, might take months to see results with, if at all. The one thing I did notice, is that when I put the M1 on a freshly pulled muscle (like, immediately after), the muscle did seem to heal up much faster than I would otherwise expect. So I’m optimistic.
@TajD I just looked up the Lumenate app and it seems interesting! I’ll have to check it out (while wearing the Muse, of course). Thanks for the suggestion!
By the way, I don’t have any personal experience with the NeoRhythm, I just know of it. Would love to take it for a spin at some point.
yes! the fresher the injury that you apply it to, the sooner I’ve noticed it heals. also, the younger you are, the more responsive and sooner injuries seem to heal as tested on my 8yo
@LWM, FWIW, the ICES PEMF M1 purchase is literally one of the best purchases I have ever made. I lurked for a year before buying one and finally did when I broke my elbow (some of my first posts). Our family now has 2 M1s plus a c5 and have purchased other M1s for friends and family.
i have to agree with @TajD… it’s one of my greatest finds… pemf tech PLUS the inventor who is an actual scientist and makes himself accessible among us to learn, experiment and discuss pemf.
i have purchased 2 a9s and 1 m1 for my family, a c5 that was originally for me but gave it to my parents for their benefit and 2 a9s for my 2 brothers to try in their households.
I’ve used pemf multiple times daily trying all kinds of things. i think it is something that should be in every household medicine cabinet!
I’m a fantastic bc of the consistent results I’ve gotten from using across different people, ailments, and times over the years.
I was hoping to tinker with brainwave entrainment using my M1 some more, but unfortunately, my Muse EEG headband is on the fritz, so I doubt I’ll be posting any more results in this thread. As cool as the Muse is in terms of the data and insight that it provides (when it works), the design of the product is pretty crappy as far as it lasting and not breaking.
that’s a bummer when they have an interesting product but crap build quality… thanks for sharing the info that you did. i guess back to going of how you feel haha
Hello there!
In my opinion, EEG machines pick up on very small frequencies and you could very well be picking up the activity of the ICES program. When I run my EEG machine and there is a cell phone nearby, it will disrupt the readings of the brainwaves. To see the effects of the ICES on the brain, we take an EEG report, do the therapy, wait 24 hours and then remeasure and do this several times in order to see the gradual change. But trust me when I say, you are affecting your brain. I use a disentrainment tool to disrupt harmful patterns and gently urge the brain to rebalance. ICES, in my opinion with the brainwave settings, is an entrainment tool. You are basically telling your brain what you want it to do.
Hi @christina, welcome to the forum. Although we seem to be coming to a different conclusion, the supporting evidence we’re both using seems to kind of match. You’re saying that a nearby cellphone disrupts your EEG readings, and I’m saying that it’s possible that the shift in EEG patterns I’m seeing might be coming directly from the coils, not from the brain. So we seem to be kind of agreeing there. You are also saying (i think) that the proper way to do things is to measure AFTER the therapy, and I’m saying that in the few experiments where I’ve seen a change, the change completely disappeared after I turn the device off, so we’re kind of on the same page there too. I’m also totally agreeing with you that the M1 is definitely affecting my brain (as evidenced by immediate headaches that appear under certain circumstances), I’m just not convinced that the effect is entrainment, with the reasoning for that outlined in previous posts. Either way, I do concede that my “experiments” are very crude and sooo not solid science! So I certainly am open to the possibility of being wrong, hehe.
Curious: What kind of EEG machine do you use? Also, what is this disentrainment tool? sounds interesting!
The m1 will interfere with the muse that’s my guess.
I didn’t see you mention any specific placement protocol either which would be very helpful.
I do appreciate your thorough response though
I wonder if theta and delta had unremarkable results due to a failure to read down regulation by the muse.
It’s too bad no one has posted with the flux brain monitoring device
The position of the coils was either just above the temples, or on the forehead, side to side, not stacked. I do note that most of the time i think. Yeah, it would be fun to run this with different brainwave monitoring devices. Too bad the muse turned out to have a very short lifespan.
