Flux Health Forum

Muscle twitching with high intensity pemf systems

Why skeletal muscle twitching happens with very high intensity pemf systems?

Pulling in @Bob for this question

Thanks @TajD,
The answer is biophysics -
1 - Magnetic pulses induce electrical currents in conductors (basic physics)
2- The body is a conductor (basic biofluids)
3- Therefore, magnetic pulses will induce electric currents in the body (logical deduction)
4- High powered magnetic pulses will induce large currents (Maxwell’s Equations)
5- Muscle can be activated to twitch by the application of an electric current above a certain threshold (Luigi Galvani ca. 1890, and basic muscle electro-physiology)
6- Logical conclusion: Very high intensity PEMF systems induce muscle twitching because they emit very high intensity magnetic pulses, plus the logical steps listed above.

1 Like

My thoughts exactly!
Can you reverse the orientation of your coils to change the direction of the current flow and still get twitching? Is the muscle group twitching due to PEMF on motor neurons and/or muscle fibers? Is frequency also a factor of twitching? Does muscle twitching also depend on other factors like a source of potassium from injured cells?

well… the original question was directed toward twitching caused by very high intensity PEMF systems.

All of the things you bring up are of course quite relevant, but nuanced. I think it is a simple matter that very high intensity PEMF systems are way over-powered, their pulse waveform is typically far too long and noisy (and often poorly defined), and thus massive amounts of stray energy are blasted through tissues, some of which can cause muscle fiber twitches or even fused contractions, motor-neuron depolarization, and probably a lot of other unintended effects that are less apparent but no less physiologically important.

Its like asking why muscles twitch when you stick a nail into an electrical outlet. Nothing subtle is going on. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Urban legend when I was a kid was that if you stuck a fork in an outlet you’d be paralyzed and unable to get out of the situation. Suppose a fork would conduct more than a nail. No intentions of doing the experiment. If you watch the YouTube videos, it is nothing like a Galvani frog leg. It appears to be a nuanced muscle group. Not knowing concerns me. What happens if a small portion of fibers in the heart does this isolated twitching?

Electrically-induced muscular contraction, and (sometimes) an inability to relax muscles and just let go of an electrical conductor is a real thing, not an urban legend.

Electrocution turns out to be an extremely detailed med-tech-safety topic with huge amounts of research and information, that you could easily study for a lifetime.

Briefly:
It all depends on the details, most of which are unknown, related to the exact way the body comes into contact with a voltage/current source.
+
The exact nature of the voltage/current source
+
the environment (wet floor?, humidity/sweat?, objects and surfaces in the surroundings? Body contact points with the environment?)

It is definitely not as simple as: “If you stick X into voltage source Y, then Z will happen to you.”

But we have benefited a great deal from the huge amount of research and development, consumer safety, government regulations, industrial standards that have been developed over the past 125 years. For example, did you know that every year about 100 people die of electrocution? This was true more than a century ago, when almost no one had access to electricity, pretty much through modern times, when electricity is everywhere. This means that the average exposure risk has been greatly reduced: Many more opportunities to get exposed to electricity, but about a steady number of electrocutions.

If you work out the math, electricity has become millions of times safer over the last century.

But still, IMO, the modern world continuously presents a menu of new threats that taken together amount to a pretty severe intelligence test.

That’s hillaroius Bob :rofl:!

I was venturing into dark humor, getting a bit too dark. I had to delete a few sentences referencing Darwin before I posted it.

1 Like

Funny! Fewer deaths because dozens of coppers are out guarding downed high voltage power lines. In high school we had a macabre debate as to whether it was the voltage or current that kills you. Too much current creating enough friction to cook you to a crispy piece of char. Another funny thing is that 50Hz AC is more dangerous than direct current. Some jerk off PEMF companies like to use 60Hz PEMF for some “heart healthy” reason. This is what bugs me about many PEMF companies. You are stupid if you start asking too many deep questions.