Flux Health Forum

Major Side Effects, no benefits yet

Pain and Inflammation
#1

I wanted to get a read on my exact experience in starting the A9 1.5 weeks ago. Please see last paragraph for the specificities of my pain.

My A9 arrived towards the end of a 2 week streak of “good days” for me, which is unusual. I wore the A9 for a night and a day, and then the streak ended. Could be a coincidence, but wanted to note that. For the first week, I wore the 2x2 coil all night and most of the day (maybe 18-20 hrs total per day) on Medium, occasionally High. I was feeling pretty tired and unfocused most of the week, so upon reading Bob’s advice in another person’s forum, I began to only wear it at night on Low and for maximum 4 hours during the day. Since making that change, may pain has been far worse. Again, I’m sure that’s a coincidence that I had a flair up this weekend but wanted to note. As follows:
Saturday: Worse pain I’ve experienced in months (mostly nerve pain rather than muscular). I was feeling horrible emotionally, crying all day.
Sunday: Pain was a little better and mood was much better.
Monday: Pain better than Sunday, but mood HORRIBLE. I’ve never felt this way before - felt nothing like myself, dark, depressed, anxious, irritable. Could not think of anything productive to do and had a scowl on my face all day.
Today: Mood better than yesterday, but slow and brain-foggy. Pain is worse, too - both nerve and muscular.
I’ve also rotated between the 2x2 and the standard a bit since the first week, depending on where I’m deciding to place them that day and what seems like the best fit.

I know it’s supposed to take 2-3 weeks to notice a reduction in pain, so I’m trying to be patient and hope for that. Bob, I saw you suggest to another person experiencing tiredness that they should wear it for short periods during the day (less than an hour) at M-H intensity. So I’m thinking my next move will be to NOT sleep with it (which I’ve done every night thus far), and instead to follow your advice. Given what I’m sharing, how much total time do you think I should attempt to wear it? Maybe 4-5 hours divided with an hour between each? I’m worried that if I don’t wear it enough or at a high enough setting, I won’t be giving it the full “college try” and be able to truly determine if its helping me in the next couple weeks. I’m willing to put up with some crazy side effects for a more certain outcome, you know?
Do you have any other advice? Should I be considered by these crazy mood changes and the fact I’ve felt no physical improvement yet (and my pain has actually been worse) since using the A9?

MY ISSUES:
I have a mystery back injury (caused by simply twisting my back weirdly in the car a year ago) that’s caused major issues - lower back and hip pain, hurting to sit or bend or lean or twist, plus a strange neuropathic pain on my left torso that feels like a sunburn where it hurts if clothes rub against my skin. Nothing found on MRIs besides a minor Schmorls Node on T12, plus some very minor bulges/disk issues in L4/L5 and upper back. Docs say none of those are enough to be causing these issues (“they’re barely worth mentioning!”). My knees and upper back/shoulders have also started to have issues since the incident, in later months.

#2

I think not using at night is prudent in your case. In my experiences we start low and slowly build up. Where are you putting the coils?

#3

Two things: for the back, I can’t recommend a FAR-infrared pad highly enough. (Note: that’s far-infrared, not near infrared, which I consider a scam). My wife, who is disabled, has had back issues for decades because she’s confined mostly to a wheelchair/walker. Since using this pad twice a day for 20-30 minutes each, her back issues are anywhere from 60-90% better and flareups go away usually without the help of advil. Her device is the Thermotex Platinum. There are others, but that’s the one that definitely helps her. The one mystery here is the strange neuropathic “sunburn” skin pain. This is a shot in the dark, but you might want to get tested for CRPS. This is a condition my wife also has had for 35 years but is currently in remission.

1 Like
#4

What is the orientation of the magnetic field relative to the long axis of your injury? This guy Al Franco-Obregon has published some briliant work
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0142961222002988?via%3Dihub
Wong CJK, Tai YK, Yap JLY, Fong CHH, Loo LSW, Kukumberg M, Fröhlich J, Zhang S, Li JZ, Wang JW, Rufaihah AJ, Franco-Obregón A. Brief exposure to directionally-specific pulsed electromagnetic fields stimulates extracellular vesicle release and is antagonized by streptomycin: A potential regenerative medicine and food industry paradigm. Biomaterials. 2022 Aug;287:121658

I would say try changing the orientation of your device. I’m a big supporter Faraday’s Law of Induction to explain a lot of PEMF

#5

I have so many different pain points, so I rotate it every few hours. The first week, rotated between central lower back (right above butt), hip, and ribcage where I have the neuropathic pain.

This week I’ve been putting it in spots higher on my spine to see if I can target the Schmorl’s node and bulges, even though the docs say that’s not what’s causing it. I wish I knew where the nerve root was for the neuropathy I’ve been feeling in my left torso, but I’ve been placing it along my spine in a few different spots to try to target that.

I didn’t sleep with it last night and that totally helped my mood! But, I want help with the pain and not just the mood :frowning:

#6

Hi there - thanks so much for sending this! I read through some of the study and I have to admit it fully goes over my head. Are you suggesting I try merely putting the device (meaning the part where the battery is held) horizontally in my pocket instead of vertically? Or are you talking about changing the orientation of the coils, and the direction the wire is protruding?

#7

Hi there, thanks so much for replying. I will look into that device! Has it been helping her to heal long-term, or it just gives her relief when or around the time she wears it?

I know about CRPS and I don’t have it. I believe you need to have visual swelling and redness for CRPS, right? For me, the “rash” is all feeling and no external symptoms. Congrats on your wife being in remission, that’s amazing! How’d she get there?

#8

You’re welcome. You definitely do not have to have a rash or swelling to have CRPS, my wife never had it (altho her skin was blue-ish at the very beginning 35 years ago) and her niece has a severe case and no rash or swelling.

Hard to say if the Thermotex is “healing” long term. Her current status of being wheelchair confined with way too much sitting contributes to chronic back problems…all we know is that doing the pad twice a day has arrested much of the back issues so it’s part of her daily therapy. Far Infrared penetrates deeply and increases circulation, healing, and reduces inflammation (as long as it’s a certified medical device and not the bogus crap marketed all over the web–especially “red” and near-infrared devices).

As I’ve related elsewhere, she got CRPS (RSD) 35 years ago after hanging in gravity boots (for her back, no less!) and got RSD in her feet/ankles. Took 15 doctors to diagnose it and the 16th to treat it. She was one of the first people in the U.S. to get cold laser treatment as part of an FDA study. She also got intravenous DMSO. She went from a wheelchair to hiking after a year of therapy that included PEMF. She had a relapse 10 years ago after an accident because the RSD had caused severe tendinosis even tho the RSD itself had been under control. After the RSD flareup the laser no longer worked but she went on Low Dose naltrexone and that put it back in remission. What she’s dealing with now is the tendinosis/bursitis/arthritis. The PEMF (ICES) is now not helping her (altho it absolutely cured 2 issues I had).

#9

Yes, by changing the orientation of the coils you are changing the orientation of the magnetic field and the flow of charged particles. AlFranco-Obregon gives me struggle too. His company is geared to longevity by stimulating large skeletal muscle groups with PEMF. I didn’t what to post a link to this post on Bob’s forum

https://pemfbio.com/2024/07/29/pemf-muscle-fat/​​​

I think that the actin laments were acting as electrical wires in this study, personally. Are there charged particles building up somewhere in your particular condition? Changing the orientation of the coils may better facilitate their movement. Brilliant work that probably applies to many different PEMF devices. I think smaller coils and more programmable field strengths and frequencies can be a break through for the self hacked.

#10

Hi there - thanks for the insight. I’m going to look into the thermotex. What kind of doctor was the 16th who treated her CRPS? And, I’m assuming the thermotex doesn’t help the crps specifically - did your wife have anything she’d fall back on for immediate relief when she was struggling with CRPS? I always feel helpless when my neuropathy is acting up.

#11

The doctor was an anesthesiologist from Poland who became head of anesthesiology for a major hospital in NY (don’t remember which-was a long time ago) but he had gone into private practice as a holistic Dr. when we found him–Tomas Szulc. He’s now a Manhattan Dr. to the very rich and prob near retirement.
The Thermotex is for treating her back issues (muscle spasms, disc problems, facet joint arthritis) from sitting too much and left over from her horse back riding days and riding motorcycles. The Thermotex is also good for the tendinosis in her feet that the CRPS created, tho not as responsive as her back. Actually for her feet she uses a different far-infrared pad that’s more flexible, made by Venture Heat. Her serious CRPS foot pain went away a long time ago with Szulc’s cold laser treatment. I think she was just doing lots of advil back then before that. She still occasionally takes advil for her feet and back, and we will still use pharma-grade 50% DMSO on her feet (Jacoblab.com) a few times a week along with Terry Naturally Traumaplant Comfrey Cream. Note: with DMSO, your hands and the area to be treated MUST be clean. Occurs to me that DMSO might be helpful for your back. Note that DMSO can irritate your skin somewhat. Doesn’t irritate mine at all though.

#12

For what it’s worth, I am SUPER reactive and have found that less is more with PEMF. I only use the P9 for super short periods, 15 to 30 minutes, because longer sessions and higher intensities cause nausea and other side effects for me. I have also found that different locations, settings, and intensities all have MAJOR impacts on both positive effects and negative effects for my system.
I started at level four for 15 minutes and then worked up to level 7 for 30 minutes, and found that Schumann 4 was overall best for my anxiety, omni helped most with lower back pain, and the TMS programs really help with depression. The highest level I have been able to tolerate without side effects for any period of time was level 7.
While I know you have different concerns, like you I found that most people use the device for hours, often at much higher settings, for the issues I am treating, but my body simply can’t handle that much stimulus.
My suggestion is to back WAY up and start low and slow, experimenting to see when you first feel either positive or negative effects. Then you can go from there. I actually created an excel spreadsheet so I could track the time, intensity, setting and both positive and negative effects. It took a while, but was well worth figuring out what works best for me individually.
Also, I know a lot of folks on here are not fans (and it is super expensive), but for whole body and back, my BEMER mat is the best thing I have found. I wouldn’t have invested in it, though, if I hadn’t been able to try it out through a local company first over the course of a few months with immediate and continued benefits.
I definitely recommend you try to find a local clinic or practitioner where you can try it first if you do consider that route. Interestingly, the BEMER program only recommends two 8 minutes sessions daily (I do them back to back) but I and my husband have both had definitive improvements in our systemwide Long Covid symptoms and various aches, breaks, etc. from using the mat and the Bspot regularly for just 16 minutes daily.
That was part of why I decided to start with such short sessions on the P9 - that and recommendations I found from Bob to go low and slow at first. :slight_smile:
My husband also had success from using the P9 for a nonhealing fracture , but again, only for 20-30 minutes at a time at a moderate (for him, 9) setting.
Hang in there - and don’t ever hesitate to reach out to the amazing and supportive folks on this forum. Just remember that every person is different, and we all respond differently, so it will take some trial and error to find what works best for you. I swear by PEMF, though, and love my P9!
On another note, I have developed lots of low back issues and have found that yoga and stretching really helps. You have to find a teacher who emphasizes the journey over the position and lets you go slowly based on your individual body and fitness level. If you are interested in trying out some stuff, I use Yoga with Adriene’s free YouTube videos. Just search her name and “back” and you’ll see some stuff you can try.
Also, my friend created this video during Covid, and it has helped me IMMENSELY. https://www.facebook.com/BreathewithBrenna2020/videos/1998542500281607
She stresses skipping or modifying anything that hurts in any way, so I often jump through and skip entire portions (the back bending positions on my stomach get a pass most of the time) or modify to what my body can do vs the pose being shown. Adriene is also pretty good about that and has a whole series for beginning yoga. Just a thought!!!
Finally, in case your doctor/pharmacist hasn’t told you, long term use of NSAIDS has been found to make joint pain worse and actually damage cartilage over time, so in case you have been prescribed any type of NSAID (I spent YEARS on celecoxib), I highly recommend going off of them and switching to primarily acetaminophen for pain relief. Of course, check with your doctor first!!!
Hope some of this helps!