Flux Health Forum

Leg and Butt Pain unresolved with Lumbar Decompression Surgery

Its best to just follow my basic guidelines for coil placement:

  • generally always: bumpy sides away from the skin

  • when stacking coils, tape them bumpy-sides together. Then you can place the stacked coils either side against the skin. (it is magnetically symmetric, both sides are essentially identical)

If I ever suggest something different (and rarely but occasionally I do), it is the result of a lot of calculus and hundreds of hours of testing; it would be impossible to explain it in ASCII text. But I have tested it, and I know it works, even if it is too complex to explain.


About the nuance of different coil configurations on EMP. Apologies in advance if I am a bit too brutally honest, but honestly is in very short supply in the world of PEMF, so that’s what I stick with.

It’s not really an EMP in the usual sense of the word (though technically it is), and the magnetics are fairly simple but change rapidly.

Philosophically using PEMF this is sort of like driving a car: you do not need to know about the details of computational thermo-fluid dynamics of combustion of aerosolized liquid hydrocarbons to drive a car. I mean, honestly, the last time you had surgery, did you discuss the exact alloy and temper of the surgical blades they intended to use during the surgery. Of course not. But strangely, when dealing with PEMF, people understandably think they should know all of the technical details, and this is because PEMF marketers trick them into believing they have a scientific secret to tell them. Usually it is a secret “frequency”, or a special amount of “Gauss”.

All of the false claims and misinformation on the Internet related to PEMF are intended to give people a “sciency” feel of intellectual satisfaction, to sucker them in with this false sense of understanding, so their over-priced products are easier to sell.

The reality is this: PEMF is way to complex to discuss here, and mostly it remains a total medical mystery. This is OK; many things in medicine are a total mystery, such as anasthesia:

Occasionally someone claims they solved the mystery, but read in detail: they did not. They just found another molecule. They did not solve the mystery. Here is why: anesthesia prevents the consciousness and memory of pain. And we have really no Idea how memory or consciousness work, so understanding how anesthesia works is utterly impossible. Yet we use it safely hundreds of millions of times every year, and it is one of the great pillars of modern medicine. Modern surgery, for example, would be impossible without anesthesia.

PEMF is analogous to this. You could know everything there is to know about electromagnetism, and still not really understand how that relates to biological processes. So, to really help you in a practical way, we need to firmly stick to the basics. It’s best if you just follow my guidelines without trying to get too much into the details of the nuance of PEMF.

Nonetheless, I have published a lot of that information in the form of hundreds of YouTube videos and many scientific papers, so you could always refer to those if you really want to look at the details of PEMF. But still, no one really understands it. And that’s the honest truth.

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I have recently experienced sciatica due to disc compression in L3 through S1. I will have an MRI next week to try to nail down the exact location for the problem. I want to start PEMF now to try for some relief. My question is should the PEMF be applied to the area experiencing the pain or the spinal column area causing the nerve impingement? Thanks for any thoughts

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Hi Steve.
This is a question best answered by Dr. Bob. I started treating with PEMF just two days ago.
I’m interested to read his response as well.
Best of luck to you.
Tim

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Several people have asked me this, have tried it, and this is what we think we are works best:

First, I would assume that the pain arises from the area on the spine where the nerve emerges, so wherever there is pressure, I would treat the nerve there (in this case, at the impinging area of the spine)

If that does not help, then try locating the coils further and further down the nerve toward the area where you feel the pain. You may need to look up the neuroanatomy (easy to do on the Internet).

How far to move them each time? I would say about 1.5 to 2 coil diameters (3 or 4 inches) down along the path of the nerve.

How long should you leave the coils in each test position?:

Starting at the spine, I would say at least an hour or two. Then, if that is not helping, try moving them down along the nerve pathway from the spine toward where it actually hurts, holding the coils in place at each spot for at least 30-40 minutes. This may work if the nerve impingement causing your trouble is not actually at the spine, but is somewhere further down along the nerve.

You may get relief more quickly. It may take longer. It may work instantly. It may not work at all.

Individual biological variation makes this a trial-and-error process. But with practice you will get pretty good at it.

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Thanks Bob. I will try starting with the lumbar and work my way down, and will give some feedback on results

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excellent, thanks. Please give as much detail as you can, people ask about this all the time, so it will be helpful.

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You may have better success by treating the brain stem first. When it comes to spinal issues, I find it is important to stimulate nerve roots associated with the site. Even better when I treat brain stem, thoracic and dorsal root ganglion as well.

About a week ago, I received in the mail and started using the A9 unit for the condition described above. My initial commitment was to report my experience as I go along.
I started by applying the coils to both sides of the L5 region just above my SI joints. I wasn’t able to do this for too long because it was irritating.
Dr. Bob suggested I stack the coils and apply to the sciatic nerve pathway moving them 2-3 inches from very hour or so.
I did this for the past week in addition to applying them sid-by-side.
I can’t at this point report any significant improvement directly attributed to the A9.
My physician recently prescribed prednisone/gabapentin and since I started taking the meds, have gotten some relief.
My suspicion is the inflammatory neuropathy I have going on is perhaps too much for the unit to turn around in a short period.
I intend to keep treating and will report again in a couple of weeks.
Best to all.

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Hey Beautim,

Sorry to hear the PEMF hasn’t helped out, at this point. Bob often talks about the importance of trying a lower power setting, if you’re experiencing negative symptoms. I experience these at times with PEMF, and typically selecting a lower setting does the trick. Also, I just checked google, and the sciatic nerve branches out from L4-S3. So it might be worth trying placing the coils in a side-by-side configuration a little higher (at L4) or lower (over the sacral nerve roots). Hopefully that helps!

So, the “if a little’s good, a lot ought to be better” approach ma6 not apply?
Good to know. I’ll give that a try.

Yes, it’s definitely true that “more is better” often does not apply to PEMF, at least in terms of the power settings. Many peeps find that higher settings cause irritation. I definitely do.

my friend has been using for sciatica all along the nerve and has tried consistently for 12hrs at a time easily for the last 2 weeks. I’m starting to wonder if this can’t help sciatica as much as hoped for. he has also tried stacked and side by side with varying power levels with no benefit.

on a separate note he had hurt his wrist somehow putting together a bike for his son… after an hour or so of pemf, his wrist was much better. :man_shrugging::man_shrugging:

I applied the coils in both side-by-side and stacked configuration, 24/7 , over the nerve roots and along the nerve pathway for well over a week with no noticeable improvement. My hunch is, because the sciatic nerve is so large and buried deep beneath dense gluteal muscle or deep inside the spine, the A9’s intensity may not be enough to penetrate. Just a hunch tho.
I also have an arthritic shoulder which I had scoped a few years ago. The shoulder gets very sore if I over-use it. After 40 minutes of side-by-side/ high level treatment, the shoulder feels a lot much better. So, there is benefit to be had by using the unit.
Perhapse more experimentation will carry the day.
Stay tuned.

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This is a good suggestion in my opinion.

Definitely we observe that “more is not necessarily better”; sometimes too much becomes less effective and somewhat irritating.
Lower back pain usually responds well to ICES-PEMF: we get report that range from 93% to 99% success, usually within 1 to several days.
Sciatica is more difficult. It seems to be somewhat less successful, because it is harder to pin down the source of the trouble perhaps, and it takes longer (many days to weeks usually)

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Yes. I observe my sciatica is very stubborn and hard to figure out. Multiple branches converging to form a large nerve running deep inside and passing through a variety of tissues. Very complex. My view is: I own the unit, batteries are easy to recharge and I have the time so, why not keep at it and see what will come of it over time.
The input on the forum is helpful.
Thanks.

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Definitely some of these issues are more stubborn than others. Carpal tunnel, CRPS, and fibromyalgia are similar in this regard. Initially it took me almost 4 weeks of trial and error and a lot of persistence to get it to work for fibromyalgia. Mine was bad at the time and getting progressively worse. But I eventually figured out what needed to be done with ICES-PEMF to get good results (start immediately, use all day every day, use higher intensity than I normally need for back pain, use stacked coils, expect 2-3 weeks of use).
People who have used ICES-PEMF for carpal tunnel tell me the same approach works.

And for stubborn things like this, it helps to use ICES-PEMF preemptively. Some older hockey players I know use ICES-PEMF on their wrists before and after every game, and have stopped any recurrence of carpal tunnel. I do the same thing to prevent further episodes of fibromyalgia.

CRPS is the most difficult I think. But when people start early and use ICES-PEMF often and are persistent they tell me they usually get good results.

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That’s a good point about how deep the sciatic nerve is. For a structure that deep, my understanding is you might only be able to penetrate deep enough by positioning the coils on either side of the hip (front & back) to sandwich the nerve. And it’s possible you will also need to try a higher power setting, in that configuration.

Hey @Beautim I have some of the same issues but it hasn’t gone as far. I’ve found NUCCA chiropractic helpful. The doctor only adjusts the C1 or atlas bone. I’d suggest giving that a try whenever you’re able. Best wishes for speedy healing.

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Updated observations here.
Intrigued by Dr. Bob’s YT conversation discussing the benefits gained by clinical PEMF treatment combined with the micropulse, I set put to find PEMF in a clinical setting locally.
Mid-week, I located a chiropractor with clinical scale PEMF beds/machines. I tried to take a treatment on Wednesday (3 days ago) and wasn’t able to tolerate the pulse as my sciatic nerve went into overdrive even at the lowest setting. I lasted perhaps 30-60 seconds.
I went back for another try yesterday and was able to tolerate 30 minutes at a faster freq. beginning at the lowest setting and gradually increasing slightly as the sensation dissipated. The treatment lasted 30 minutes.
About 1-2 hours following treatment, I began to feel light headed as though my bp was low. Upon measuring, my pb was 123/72 as usual.
I also felt pressure in the area in my throat just below the top of my sternum.
From onset to end, these sensations lasted under an hour.
Within another hour or so, my low back and sciatic nerve started to hurt. As the evening went on, the soreness/stiffness continued to increase. Today, my low back is sore, as tho I injured it. I’ve been alternation hea5 and cold to try to resolve it.
I tried to use the micropulse today at my L4 and lower. However, I’m very sensitive and even the lowest setting is irritating right now.
My understanding is, PEMF increases blood flow which I assume would explain the light headedness. I have hypothyroidism so I assume the sensation in my throat was due to PEMF influence on my thyroid.
I don’t know if this a good or bad as most of what I try during this recovery seems wrong.
My understanding is, PEMF is supposed to modulate pain yet I am stiff and sore today.
I’m perfectly willing to trade short term discomfort for long term gain but I don’t want to go backwards.
Can anyone help me understand or interpret interpret this? Is this good soreness or bad soreness/normal/abnormal? Did I make a mistake by treating for 30 minutes?
I can go back for a treatment again on Monday. Any suggestions?
Thanks all.

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