Flux Health Forum

Innovation by using HRV as a Tool for Optimizing all unknown variables in usage of PEMF

As I see it, the biggest bottleneck in PEMF usage today is not in the product. Even with the best products using ICES technology the biggest limitations which limits or hinders us, in its maximization of usage and benefits, is that too often it’s not easy to determine, easily and quickly how to optimize all of the available options, so the only real viable option today, in actual usage of PEMF is to Experiment and try different options.

I’m suggesting the thought that using Real Time HRV (or near real time HRV) is the most affordable and most practical tool for helping Clintons to optimize PEMF usage and get their best results and it’s probably by far, the most effective tool in the world today, for PEMF usage in clinical applications.

I believe that using Real Time (or near real time) HRV can help clinitions to remove most of all endless possibilities of variables in determining very quickly any and all of the following variables and with relatively reasonable objective certainty:

For each individual clients needs, what is?:

Optimum Spot on the body where to put the coil for their individual need.

Optimum Power Level for their Individual need

Optimum Number of Coils for any individual need

Optimum Protocol for any individual need

Optimum amount of time of usage, where the client gains the maximum benefit, before which time, then the benefit level, begins to be not to be not AS beneficial, as it was, at the earlier time, of usage.

And many more possible variables such as getting instantaneous objective indication on the HRV, which of various adjunct therapy to the PEMF is helpful and which is not or the opposit.

It takes allmost all the guesswork out of most of what all of us here, in this forum, are always contemplating, wondering about, questioning and experimenting with.

I am planning to embark on this project in my own usage, and hope to report my findings here.

I would love to have more collaboration here with others who might be trying this, as well so that we can share our findings and help each other perfect the way we do this.

I have been contemplating this idea for over a year, experimenting with a few different HRV products which were not suitable for this purpose.

So far I found that most consumer grade HRV products are not very good at Real Time or Near Real Time HRV. Most manufacturers cater to the mass market comfort and ease of use but don’t care that much for how quickly and accurately we get the feedback, indications, of the results.

And most of them use wireless data transmission which introduced more time delay and makes it much, much more unreliable.

I’m still searching for the best HRV product to use for this. So far the best HRV product which I found which uses direct wire connections (no wireless) and is as close to near Real Time as can be, is from Heart Math.

Does anyone know of any other, better, Near Real Time and non-wireless HRV which is reasonably affordable?

I have purchased their product not for their allocation but only for the purposes described Above and I hope to begin trying many of the experiments described above.

I am looking for others with a common interest in the above, so that we can work together and exchange ideas and results.

I searched this forum for the key word “HRV”
I found only a handful of posts and even those are people who have used HRV with the manufacturers own applications but I have found no one yet, who embarked on a project to use HRV only as a tool to optimize all PEMF variables in usage.

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Flux Health Brain Gage is a great indicator, very accurate, but is in a totally different class of application.

It has the advantage over HRV that it measures very clearly defined specific aspects and does so very accurately which is great.

However it’s not designed to give Real Time or Near Real Time feedback so it’s not practical for the usage and benefits which I described above.

Brain Gage is also not suitable for this for other reasons because Brain Gage can’t possibly work without the client purposefully being engaged in responding to tactile input.

Not so with HRV

Only HRV is totally not dependant on the client being engaged at all, client can be sleeping or their brain can even be relatively totally “Off Line”

For example
Many Patients with TBI are in a Coma. Right After a severe TBI at a time where PEMF or any other therapy matters most (the earlier we start the better) only HRV can let us know if and how PEMF is helping them where Brain Gage can’t give any indication at all even if we didn’t need "real time’ input.

Likewise, many TBI pationts even if not in a Coma yet they have not yet recovered enough, to be capable of being responsive enough so they could use Brain Gage. There is no way in the world we can know what we are doing trying to help such pationts (other than just blindly guessing) without HRV as an instant cost effective CLEAR indicator.

With a pationt who is yet so unwell, that they can’t even answer any questions, then we are at at an event greater disadvantage, than we are with any ordinary person who can at least tell you if they feel better or worse, when the clinitions tries different types changes in the PEMF application on them.

Only HRV technology is capable of near realtime indication and totally objective indication, if anything which is being done to the brain or body is beneficial or the opposit, which allows a clinitions realtime or near realtime feedback for Optimizing PEMF applications.

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How about a phone app like “Camera HRV”? As I understand it, a simple app like this can be similarly accurate compared to expensive HRV measuring devices. I’m not sure if this would be considered a “real time” or “near real time” measuring device.

As for myself, or anyone else who is really very dedicated and very serious about helping people heal, I would rather spend money on an HRV measuring device which I know is best in being very reliable and very accurate rather than a free (or low cost app) which might work, sometimes, when all conditions are perfect.

There might be some exceptions, but usually the free or very low cost stuff out there, is not reliable and has no support behind it.

But for people who otherwise could not afford a hardware based HRV device, and are willing to put up with hassle of lack of reliability, and don’t care if the readings are not necessarily accurate, for them it might be a good option.

From peoples feedback on these apps, it seems that it does work somewhat at least but I don’t think it’s practical for our purposes, to have to put up with the hassle of too many variables which could affect the results of a camera reading, like angle of camera, ambient light, relative spacing of the camera light to the camera + more.

Off hand there seems to be 3 different apps (non are called Camera HRV)

HRV Camera
Camera Heart Rate Variability
And Welltroy

Maybe others too which I didn’t find yet.

Not sure which one you were referring to.

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FWIW, Welltory has been great for me and I don’t need always racking near real time recordings of HRV. Apple Watch and Welltory HRV test via finger on camera & flash are sufficient for me.

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I was talking about “Camera Heart Rate Variability” app. On my home screen, it’s named “Camera HRV” that’s why i referred to it as such. Didn’t realize that wasn’t the official name.

Out of curiosity, how would one go about attempting to discover whether PEMF affects HRV while eliminating other variables? I don’t know much about this, but I figure this must be pretty tricky to accomplish.

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I’m so glad to hear that you have it.

Did you ever try to see if it reflects any changes based on how you use or you don’t use your PEMF device?

Why not wireless?

How about one of these chest straps etc?

This has been my experience. I tried it and it’s very extremely unreliable and unstable.

You notice how bad it is the most, if you try to use it in an application where it’s supposed to be “always on”.

In such case, it’s impossible not realise the very high unreliability.

The opposite is true if you use Bluetooth only occasionally or in applications where if it works sometimes but not always, is “acceptable” to you, then you might not realize it.

Whenever something is essentially unreliable?
The linger of a period of TIME that you use it, the higher the likelihood that you can’t miss the fact of how highly unreliable it is

But I’m not the only one who thinks so.

See links below for others who can confirm+ explain tons of reasons as to why.

The delay is also a major factor:

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/audio-solutions-question-of-the-week-what-causes-bluetooth-interference/#:~:text=The%20delay%20in%20the%20delivery,operates%20in%20the%20same%20spectrum.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/why-is-windows-10-bluetooth-so-so-so-bad/1fa5538f-4162-4d87-9bb3-4d6f09f04483

Many many more…

Hello all, I have a iMRS Prime Hybrid with HRV sensor. The sensor is rated a clinical level one. No cheap deal, halve the price of an M1 for the sensor! You even get a professional PC-Software (trial version) to analyse the HRV capture files from the iMRS yourself.

BUT: iMRS only does control the power level with HRV, which seems to have some feedback-mechanics. Since the frequency-scheme at the iMRS is a single “fixed” one, there is not more to change.

The biggest problem: The Sensor, clipped to a finger, is highly uncomfortable. My better part “hates” it. It really hurts her. For similar reasons i don’t use it anymore. Its a nice toy, but the additional benefit, especially the interpretation what is beneficial or not, escapes me. Also Swiss Bionic does not really elaborate why and when exactly they increase or decrease the power level based on what grounds and what the concrete benefit may be. In addition, the Sensor is only supported with the full body mat, not the “Spot” applicators, which lowers the value for me, too. These limitations of applicability are not evident from the description of the iMRS system.

In the end its about the concrete benefit. To really get those, one would have a PEMF-device that really cycles through a lot of pattern and varies them to determine what may have an effect. This is more for experimental “bio-hacking” use in my judgement when you have some months (or years) time to try, not for direct and efficient help.

In addition you will need a complex system to evaluate the timing of things and what has happend. This costs extra money and will be totally unusable for normal people. I’m an IT expert and EE-engineer, but the HRV PC-Software and the timely interpretation of the data visualization totally escapes me.

Best,
hans