Flux Health Forum

ICES questions

… and some companies will pirate any technology, falsely claim it as their own, tell anything to investors, sell it whether it works or not, make completely unfounded claims, and advertise untested cures or treatments, even if they know that it does not work. They thrive upon the desperate and uneducated.

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please please please … no more posts about anything untested (or anything at all) about COVID. We are in absolutely no position to contribute to this conversation.

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I won’t post anymore. That one was FDA cleared though so I thought it might be okay.

Not for that. In my opinion: Absolutely no representations from that source should be believed. You honestly have no Idea how bad some of the people in this field are.

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Just to be absolutely clear:
1- Some people around the globe have suggested that early intervention with PEMF might be helpful to suppress innate immune over-reactions:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiAy9ebpZ3qAhWWonIEHT1FD1YQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FSingh_Shivakumar%2Fpublication%2F341235315_PEMF_Therapy_-An_early_adjuvant_strategy_in_management_of_COVID_19_patients%2Fdata%2F5eb5505192851cd50da1a4e6%2FPEMF-Therapy-An-Early-Adjuvant-Strategy-In-Management-of-COVID-19-Patients.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3Z4ryqo7yzehyBcAybq7vV

2- My personal opinion: I think this hypothesis has technical merit, it might be true, but we really do not have any data at this point to prove it.

3- I do have some IL-6 response data that conflicts with this hypothesis, showing that this important pro-inflammatory cytokine moves in the wrong direction when high-dose PEMF is applied to diabetic mice. This is a RED FLAG and suggests that this needs to be tested with great caution.

4- WE HAVE NO RELIABLE DATA AT THIS TIME ON THE REAL EFFECTS OF PEMF ON COVID-RELATED CYTOKINE STORM IN HUMANS. It is an area that definitely deserves detailed and prompt scientific investigation.

5- In the middle of a pandemic everyone is grasping for a shred of hope, and people will literally inject and drink bleach if it is suggested to them that this might be helpful.

6- While my scientific interest in the usefulness of PEMF for the mitigation of inflammatory over-reactions remains high, I strongly feel that it is irresponsible to openly speculate about it in public in any form where it might prompt anyone to believe in something that is being promoted by very low-integrity people for all the wrong reasons.

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What is the difference between the gen 5 (a9 model) and the gen 6 (all other models) other than more frequencies sets and ability to control which to play?

When can we expect the next gen to be available?

The difference is a fundamental change in electrical architecture at many levels. Gen 6 is a more flexible, efficient, reliable circuit. These changes were in development for many years, and I released them when they were ready.

I am constantly working on new designs, but advances, discoveries, changes in the electronics component market, and new science are impossible to predict.

My advice: if you need it now, but it now. Do not wait and suffer needlessly waiting for a new product that may or may not materialize in the near future, or may or may not have biologically functionally different effects. I am not as well funded as Apple or Samsung, and I am not under the same market pressures, so I do not obsolete my existing technologies in an attempt to squeeze out new sales for people who make their primary purchase decision on what is shiniest and newest.

I consistently try to deliver the best, most reasonably-priced technology possible, and whenever I can make it even better, I do so. But I do not grind out new products to feed the consumer-driven “newness” market. Many people have asked me to develop a “new” product for them to market invariably promising “millions of $$$ in sales” (the most recent time was 4 days ago), but they always, 100% of the time, insist that they want a product that “looks new”, but in reality would not be better in any meaningful way. I just do not take part in this. Ever.

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I do follow Dr. Mercola and decided to add the Nitrous Oxide exercise as part of my daily routine which I have been doing faithfully since June 2020. What I found interesting was the Life science link Jayess posted…exercising the arms & legs. I enjoy doing these exercises as they are simple, fast & easy. (I do twice a day)
Reading your response has helped me to understand that I’m on the right track in improving my circulation and benefiting my heart health.

Does the battery get charged if I leave it there and plug the M1 through a USB cable?

No, unfortunately I was not able to do that because of safety issues.

Recall: “Samsung Galaxy 7 battery explosions”

This is such a great article thank you for sharing. This type of exercise increases the nitric oxide in our bodies which is so vital to our heart health.

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I understand that higher power doesn’t make it any better and that using ICES technology, increased benefit come with more time rather than higher power.

I wonder if anyone tried to see if greater benefits with ICES technology can be achieved with more coils?

For example if with the M1 the maximum area of wide coverage would be 1 4x4 coil, but with a C5 we could use 4 x 4x4 which would increase the square inches of the area of the body exposed.

So although the power output per square inch may be the same from 1 4x4 coil with an M1 but by using a C5 we could increase square inch coverage over the body by a factor of 4, using 4 of the 4x4 coils.

I wonder if anyone tried an A B comparison, to see if healing might be greater, faster or more efficient using a C5 with 4 of the 4x4 coils rather than using an M1 which is only capable of only 1 4x4 coil?

I have spent many years and thousands of hours of time working on design optimization, and it is a very very technical subject to even discuss in its most basic form.

Briefly, if you use the device as it is designed, it works reliably well for a remarkable range of conditions. If you need to cover a larger area, you might need a C5 instead of an M1 or A9. That is one of the main reasons I designed the C5: it is electronically identical to four M1 units, all acting synchronously.

Any changes that we have tried (such as changing coil windings, etc.), or anyone else has tried, so far as I know, either have no detectable effect, or make the system work less well.

But testing for the subtle changes in biological effects of these sort of design changes is nearly impossible, since the differences in the effects are so small, they are almost always impossible to detect, usually impossible to measure, and take weeks to months to show up, if they ever do appear.

So, the short answer is YES, I have tried (and tried and tried and tried, for more than a decade) to make every improvement and tweak possible. I am pretty sure at this point that no obvious or easy changes would improve the effectiveness of the system by very much.

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Thank you very much for your reply.

I wasn’t asking about changing anything nor about perfecting anything in your product. I’m sure that it’s already as perfect as can be.

I was inquiring, not about the product it’s self but about it’s application, as to when it’s advantages to use your M1 perfect product with 1 4x4 coil as apposed to your other perfected product, the C5 with capability of 4 4x4 coils.

And your answer seems to be that based on your experience, you found that more coils may be advantages, when a larger area, needs to be covered.

One more thing which I was trying to understand:

You mention that the A9 Model uses ICES generation 5 Technology, whereas all your other current models use ICES generation 6 Technology.

What are the advantages of Gen 6, over Gen 5?

I definitely do not think ICES-PEMF is perfect. But I can assure you, I have tried everything I can think of to make it better. Some day, hopefully, someone smarter than I am will come along and make something much better.

The rest of this gets kind of technical, because the questions you are asking are fundamentally technical.

Using 2x2 coils with the M1 is not such a great Idea mostly because of the limitation of the camcorder battery. Here is why:

  • The 2x2 coils are wound as a parallel pair of the standard single coils.
  • This means their electrical load is double that of a standard pair of coils
  • Therefore, at any particular setting, they will draw double the current
  • DLI88 camcorder batteries have advantages and limitations
    • they are standard, inexpensive, commonly available, and very light weight
    • But they do not contain a lot of energy, and they have limited ability to generate current
    • Therefore, they are very good for low-load portable applications, but not as good for high-load applications with much larger power sources

At double the load (with 2x2 coils), the camcorder battery in the M1 simply can not supply enough power to fully energize the double load, so you end up getting less power to each coil, so for some applications it will not work as well.

This is a necessary trade-off: some people need low weight and portability, others need more power but can do with less portability.

All practical things in life have this limitation: there are trade-offs. For example, you can design a vehicle to be a dump truck, or design it to be a sports car, but you can’t design it to be both at the same time. Everything in the real world is like this.

Unlike the model M1, the models C5 and B5 use different power sources. Either they are plugged in to a USB charger port, or they are using a much larger battery pack than the M1. This allows them to deliver full power to all of the coils in a 2x2 coil array. So, if you need to use a 2x2 coil array, then I suggest a model C5 or a B5, not an M1. There is another option though…

The Model A9 uses a 9V battery, which operates at a higher voltage than the DLI88 camcorder battery in an M1, and it is able to deliver more peak power, so it can handle a 2x2 coil array better than an M1. So, if you need portability and the use of a 2x2 coil array, I suggest using the model A9 instead of an M1.

Are more coils advantageous? That depends on the nature of your injury. Some injuries are deep and focal, and the best arrangement is usually stacked or opposite side coils. But some injuries respond best to side-by-side coil placement. And larger, very superficial injuries (such as large skin or rib cage injuries, for example) respond better to a larger array of coils (2x2), with less penetration. But the rules for this are not hard and fast, so for any particular injury you need to use good sense, try different coil types and placements, and observe what works best in any particular case.


ICES generation 5 (model A9) versus generation 6 (models M1, C5, and B5):

The main differences between gen 5 and gen 6 are the electrical circuit architecture. Generation 6 is more electrically efficient and more reliable (will probably last longer), and it is more flexible and programmable, with a more advanced internal microcontroller chip.

All of these improvements make the generation 6 devices better electronically, but that does not mean that they have better biological effects than a generation 5 product, such as the A9. As far as I can tell, their biological effects are essentially identical. But the improved circuitry of the generation 6 allows more programs to be stored and more pulse patterns to be selected, allows the use of OLED displays, and overall is about 15% more energy efficient than generation 5, which means that batteries will last longer. This all allows a 25% reduction in size and weight of the model M1 when compared with the model A9. And it allows the synchronization of multiple output channels, as on the models C5 and B5. And the generation 6 circuits work well on 5 volts (USB), whereas the generation 5 devices required 9 volts.

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Sorry I’ve been missing - trying to do some catch-up here now.
Just wanted to add that from a brain-health perspective, I prefer to have people start with less and only do more of anything if that seems needed.

When I was using ICES coils on people’s heads, I tended to use 4-5 on most people and that gave them a nice response without much in the way of headache or other less-desirable effects. Some people were very sensitive after concussion and needed even less. I didn’t find anyone who needed more. I generally positioned the 2x2 coils, doubled, on each side of the head, hoping the doubling gave more penetration.

On myself, I’ve used the single coils and the 2x2 on my forehead for migraines, set at 3 and found it useful for the headaches and for my aging brain. :wink:

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This is very insightful, thanks. I really do find, at least 8 times out of ten, that less intensity is better when it comes to long-term PEMF benefits.

on the m1 frequency/pattern chart, i see an option for a9 and another for omni 8… if a9 uses omni 8, what is the a9 on the chart?

It is the slightly older original version of the A9 protocol, slightly different mode timing

@Bob, Bob would you have any suggestions for a tube or sleeve I could use to snake the wires through for the ICES coils. This might help extend the life of the coils.