I put this here because there is no forum for gastrointestinal issues.
Has anyone tried this? I wouldn’t know where to place the leads, nor what frequencies to try.
IBS may be tied to the vagus nerve, so that’s one place to start.
I hesitate to invest the $600+ in the device until I have some idea how to use it.
My original post, M1 on Gut - adverse reaction then great calm/clarity??, was in the context of trying to address IBS-D.
The die-off effects of ICES M1 on the gut were too strong to continue the self experiment. From lab culture prior to the experiment, it was known that heavy yeast and heavy e coli were likely causes of IBS-D.
I also suspected vagus nerve stimulation might help but needed to halt the experiment of ICES on the gut and more slowly address the yeast and ecoli with undecylenic acid and phage therapy.
I intend to test ICES on vagus nerve at a later time, but seem to be addressing IBS-D with the approach above.
I have very little direct personal experience with gastrointestinal issues, but many people have asked me about it, and many people have tried it for themselves and subsequently told me about it. I will try to summarize what people have told me.
The majority (probably 75-80% or more) told me that they felt that ICES-PEMF was very helpful for their GI issues. This covered a very wide range of GI issues, so I remain skeptical but optimistic . It may work by direct nerve (or other) tissue stimulation, or it may work by the generic beneficial mechanism of reducing inflammation, which ICES-PEMF is known to do based on the GLP third-party testing laboratory data that I have.
As is generally true with PEMF: there are no magical special frequencies, and there are no universal protocols that you need to adhere to. Similar to what people report for all other applications of ICES-PEMF: they try two or three different approaches, usually starting with our default settings (Omni8 at intensity 9), and within a few days they generally find some arrangement that gives them very satisfactory results. But exactly what they do varies quite a lot from person to person. So any advice you get may be quite specific for them as an individual, but you should generalize it to incorporate the concept of “that worked well for them.”
If what you are looking for is an assurance that a specific device and protocol will work, you are unlikely to find that until you approach a PEMF manufacturer of low integrity that will tell you anything necessary to get you to write a check.
The reality of PEMF in general though is that it seems to have remarkable benefits for most people for a very wide range of problems, the biological mechanisms of these benefits remain unclear, the safety concerns are virtually non-existent, but individual responses to PEMF do vary.
@TajD, Interesting. I’ve also tried Phage therapy, but unfortunately with no results. Where are you sourcing phages?
Also, what is undecylenic acid, and how did you decide to use it?
Thanks @Bob, that is very helpful. I appreciate your thoughtful approach.
On a related note - are you familiar with Class IV lasers? Does their technology overlap in any meaningful way with your area of expertise?
I’ve considered trying them directly on the GI tract to reduce inflammation. PubMed and Google searches don’t show any studies, nor anecdotal reports of this modality for IBS.
My impression is that class IV lasers have a general anti-inflammatory effect also. It is probably not the same mechanism as NSAIDs or PEMF, maybe it is. I am not an expert in that area (biological effects of class IV Lasers). But their benefits may stem from the same basic effect: reduction of inflammation. I do not know of any specific studies on GI either.
Thanks again. I’ve ordered an ICES unit, fingers crossed.
my whole family use the heck out of our a9… if we had the c5…ugh!! LOVE dr. dennis’ product and work!
@TheNightOwl I used Thorne Undecylenic acid, starting with one and working up to 10 pills a day and doing that dose for 2 months. I tried multiple herbal remedies for yeast, but they were not working so my Naturopathic Doctor recommended Undecylenic acid. I used Designs for Health Probiophage.
Here is a publication from Dr. Hamblin on light therapy proposed mechanisms of actions.
In my experience both ICES and LLLT support reduction of inflammation and the body’s ability to heal itself, however, I find I often need to use both. For example, if I have pain in my elbow, it can go away more quickly with light therapy but ICES for several weeks appears to help it heal with less recurring instances of pain than light therapy alone.
Interesting. I wasn’t aware live phages were on the market in the U.S.
To my knowledge, there are only phages sourced from Eastern Europe. It’s another therapy that is poorly studied, shows a lot of promise, and the pharmaceutical industry will try to co-opt.
I’d be happy to share my phage experience if it would be helpful to you. Whether it would help with IBS is pretty unclear.
I’ve tried the Omni 8 at intensity 9 for at least a week without effect, can you suggest other settings to try, considering the stimulus needs to reach into the large intestine?
Thanks.
Just taking an educated guess here. I would say:
1 - If using a C5 device (4 synchronized outputs) - Use Deep Field Coils:
https://www.micro-pulse.com/collections/frontpage/products/deep-field-coils-for-model-c5
2 - Using either the M1 or C5 ICES-PEMF device:
Set protocol to Alpha Wave
Increase intensity to 13 - 15
Increase duration of use to at least 6 - 8 hours per day, every day. Might be most convenient while in bed.
I suggest placing coils on the acupuncture meridian points associated with organs to want to treat. also massage those points and the organs themselves as well. But I think vegan diet and especially raw sauerkraut is most beneficial.
@TheNightOwl How long were you using the ICES unit over your large intestine each day? Have you done a stool test & culture? What have you tried for resolving your IBS? Which kind of IBS do you have?
If there were an award for number of treatments tried, I would win. Many modalities, many providers. Yes, extensive stool culture tests. I have IBS-D.
Haven’t settled on a protocol with ICES yet.
I feel for you with the IBS. I have never suffered with so severe a digestive issue but since November made a diet change that totally eliminated bloating, gas and any digestive uncomfortable issues. This is really strange and in the past I’ve tried many diets for general health (vegan, vegetarian etc) but about a year ago I switched to a high fat low carbohydrate diet and felt pretty amazing. In November I transitioned into a carnivore diet. It includes beef, lamb, eggs, grassfed butter, organ meats, fish like sardines, heavy cream and occasional cheese. No fiber at all. I have to say I have never felt better in my life.
My stomach is flat - had no idea how much I was bloated. My doctor is amazed at the change in my body composition. I have lost visceral fat and gained muscle mass without additional exercising. (at age 59) I sleep like a log but wake about an hour earlier than I used to. Mentally, I’m more alert with no mid-day slump.
I used to think I would die without eating vegetables but am learning how nutritionally dense and absorbable animal foods are. Lately I have been trying to add back in different foods. I like nuts so have been trying them. Pecans and sprouted pumpkin seeds went fine but almonds were painful and I spent 2 hours in the middle of the night with stomach pains. Yesterday I tried walnuts and today I had the first migraine I’ve had in a year.
I know this is diet heresy to many plant based only believers. All I know is how I feel. It is as though my body has been reset back to health. I have no inflammation or pain anywhere. Have even forgotten to use my ICES for months. My doctor was amazed at the bloodwork and metabolism results and actually said to continue while we watch how I do.
This may not be an answer for your IBS but I have heard a number of people with IBS describe how they have had great improvement with an animal based diet. A few things to research: Oxalates, Lectins, Phytic acid.
Congratulations on feeling your body has been reset back to health.
Chiming in on your bloating comment and tying it back to my earlier comment, I can share that in our experience we validated that we are definitely fighting bad bacteria/excessive yeast as once started using bentonite clay to help bind endotoxins, cognition improved, bloating drastically decreased and stomach became flat. Now to figure out how to remove and repopulate without months of herxheimer reactions…
That’s an interesting story. It seems some people are much more responsive to diets, radical or moderate, than others. I’ve tried Specific Carb Diet, Paleo, and Low-FODMAP without success, while they have certainly helped others.
Glad you found what works for you.
@TheNightOwl The new Doctor’s Data GI360 looks interesting and I will probably have that ordered next. It includes standardized susceptibility testing, parasitology by microscopy, a culture of bacteria and yeast, and PCR Analysis and Detection of Pathogenic Bacteria, Viruses and Yeast. Just fyi.