How I use ICES to help with sleep

[jleggett007]

Probably not unlike most of you who are reading this, I use my ICES device to help with sleep. However, I must preface this with the observation that I have mostly used the anti-inflammatory effects of the PEMF on different areas of my body that hurt when I lay down to sleep, thus relieving my pain and allowing me to sleep better.

Honestly, I experimented with many different settings before noticing that my body responds greatly to the setting on the M1 of Schumann resonance #4, Power 5. For myself, personally, this setting seems to have the greatest relaxing effect of all.

I first discovered this while trying an experiment around my nasal passages.

I use a CPAP machine to sleep and I am asthmatic. The asthma causes a constant state of inflammation in the lungs, as well as, on occassion, in the trachea and nasal passages.

Basically, I noticed that over many years of using a CPAP (27), My nasal passages were becoming more and more irritated, and it was harder to sleep with constant air pressure. So, decided to place the ICES pads on either side of my nose, with the aforementioned settings. I immediately noticed my nasal passages opening and relaxing, and even felt pressure relief in my sinuses. This helped me to breath better and sleep better.

I did notice two other effects - with the PEMF resonating at the frequencies it does on Schumman #4, I noticed that it not ony let me breath better, but I fell asleep faster and slept deeper with the ICES pads in this position. I also noticed that the more rapid frequencies in the sequence seemed to have a greater relaxing effect on nasal passages.

I have now later found, through an elimination diet, that much of what I was eating was greatly affecting the quality of my sleep and causing more inflammation in my body. Now that I have eliminated potatoes, tomatoes, wheat, and sugar, I sleep MUCH better, and I mainly use my M1 on aches and pains in muscles when I lay down to sleep.

[patient9]

What works for me is melatonin, magnessium and glycine right before sleep. I have sleep apnea and my AHI numbers are going down after starting this regimen. I do have the M1 working while asleep for my gut issues, I don’t know how that affects my sleep.

[TajD]

@patient9, what setting and power level do you use for your M1 when you have it on your gut while you sleep? Have you noticed any changes?

[patient9]

I initially used the Omni, then C5 at the default power. I also started using the one with 5 min breaks. My gut issues have been so much better but to be honest it’s hard to point exactly which one did what because I was taking Zinc Carnosine, Hydrolyzed Collagen and Psyllium as well. I’ve scaled down on the collagen consumption and my gut still feels good. I used to have bleeding almost everyday for a month but it’s all gone. I also used to get pains and cramps but it’s gone too. The M1 is so effective for the last two symptoms. I cut out milk/creme and coffee too for a week. I can drink coffee with milk now without any issues but I’m trying to avoid it as much as I can.

[TajD]

That is terrific! Thanks so much for sharing.

[TajD]

@patient9, did you have any die off symptoms from using M1 on the gut?

[patient9]

I didn’t. The moment I started to be able to sleep was the same time I started trying all sorts of things to fix my gut symptoms. The only side effect that I had was two days of nausea and dizziness a week after. I suspected it was the glycine, l-glutamine and hydrolized collagen peptides so I havent taken them since. I’m sleeping way better now (9 hrs).

[Eliza_Jane]

Which device do you use?

[OptimalHealth]

i recently got the m1 to use other frequencies… i don’t know if it’s the frequency, but for certain, compared to the a9 Omni protocol (only 1 frequency setting), i sleep THRU the night now. i wasn’t expecting that…i was expecting more dreams. i got some dreams in, but the real bonus for me at least has been solid sleep… even if I’ve had coffee that day!

[Eliza_Jane]

That’s wonderful results! Thank you for the reply.
Elizabeth

[TajD]

Where are you placing the M1, how long are you using it (before or during sleep), and which protocol did you select?

[jleggett007]

I have noticed, for me, that the ‘Schumann 4’ setting brings the most direct anti-inflammatory effects on my body. I use it on my shoulders to relieve tension and on either side of my nose to relieve sinus pressure. I let my M1 run for several hours while I sleep, sometimes the whole night. I have also noticed that, just as Dr. Dennis has mentioned in his writing and videos, the lower power settings many times work much better than the higher ones. I generally only use between levels 4 and 8 anywhere near my head or neck. I have noticed higher power settings near my head can make me dizzy and sometimes a little disoriented. For larger body parts with more distance between the pulse rings I will use higher settings.

[OptimalHealth]

it was the Schumann setting at intensity 6, stacked, behind my head… later theta initially got me dreaming up. i have to try for sleep again as that hasn’t been how I’ve been using lately. i had done for first week but will have to check if that was placebo or just a short term effect

[Dr_Ransom_J_Morin]

where behind your head? just in the center line? and how long did you treat the area?
please and thank you

[Relgie]

In my case yes, center line—I just put the coils inside my pillowcase under the pillow. At first I made a big deal out of the exact location but then I found it did not matter much.

[OptimalHealth]

i have noticed that for me, i have found more value placing the coils at the base of my neck or base of skull more for relaxation of that area and to avoid or alleviate pain from sleeping in a bad position, etc. i didn’t find consistent results applied to my head unless it was done pressure headache, which is very rare (even to have a headache at all).

the last 2 months I’ve been running and this last month more so pushing my running limits. because of this endeavor, I’ve been using my devices more so to shorten my recovery time and have time such great results using them that way for now. systematically, of course, regular exercise and improvement in my cardiovascular health has improved my sleep quality.

exercise is something that is under all our control and ALSO the “lead domino” or “keystone habit” that can most influence and impact the quality of our health, sleep, and any chronic ailments, yet we don’t seize that opportunity to leverage our health bc it’s out of our comfort zones and very easy/susceptible to rationalized excuses for why we can’t exercise regularly.

no matter what level of health we are in, we can always find time and a starting point/intensity/level to begin cardio fitness thru exercise.

[OptimalHealth]

If you poke around the forum, you may notice, as i have, that people seem to find better sleep when they place the coils on their gut, as well as head or even along their necks … basically this is the path of the vagus nerve.

i’ve just started up again w/using my a9’s for sleep, and this time i’m armed with my garmin watch that tracks sleep metrics. other than longer stretches of undisturbed sleep, I have noticed when the coils are placed along the path of the vagus nerve, quality of sleep improves.

people have been using tVNS devices like ParaSym, TruVaga, etc to help stimulate their vagus nerve to improve sleep quality and other health benefits (i.e., improved immune system, etc).

from my experience, my mom’s experience, and what i’ve read in the forum from others as well as @Bob 's annecdotes from others about using ices on gut, quality of sleep did improve. it was only after reading more closely about the vagus nerve and the anatomy of it, did i realize that (at least for my mom and me) those who notice better quality of sleep are placing the coils on where the vagus nerve extends to (stomach)!

i will be experimenting for the next 1wk+ to see how consistent my results are.

just an “aha” moment i had about (likely) how/why people do notice improved sleep when they place the coils on their gut (stomach): stimulation of vagus nerve. however, using pemf along the vagus nerve may not be the same effect as using a tens device like ParaSym, TruVaga, etc… seeing how pemf seems to optimize cell activity, i wonder how different it is from electropulse vs. how it can be stimulated through deep breathing exercise, meditation, exercise, and other natural ways. I can only guess the impact may be similar to the above mentioned natural means.

what all this rambling is leading to is how we are able to sleep overnight w/this on w/o overstimulating the vagus nerve like how a tVNS device might if left on for longer than 10-15mins, which can lead to noted side effects (noted on studies and websites of such devices).

to be continued…

[OptimalHealth]

happy to report that my baseline for stress measured during sleep is 19… in the last 2 days my stress number has been 10 and 12… normally I’m in the range of 17-22 without pemf which is ranked “fair” rare that I’m in the excellent range below 11 (9-11 for me) using pemf.

my challenge now is to go to sleep earlier, and that’s more my bad sleep schedule and inconsistent running schedule to help me get to sleep earlier and faster instead of taking 2 hrs to fall asleep.

in the meantime, I’ve found this interview useful like most of ferriss’s interviews:

Dr. Matthew Walker — All Things Sleep (Weight Gain, Alzheimer’s Disease,...

https://trysomnee.com/ -this is the device they referenced. may check it out after the public reviews it

[mb69]

did you ever check it out? unfortunately, ices is not working for sleep in my case. tried different setups and settings, but no reproducable results…
i guess in some cases, the brain really learns to mimic the delta waves of the ices, but mine has maybe too much of an own will…
i remember matthew walker explaining in his book that pemf and other stimulation methods works greatly at the brain, but for extending deep (delta) sleep phases it needs to run exactly synchronized with the oscillation rhythm of the hippocampus when entering the n3rem phase. the above mentioned tool seems to go that direction, so might be more efficient than just attaching m1 to the brain with delta protocol…

[Johnnyinflamation]

It’s my belief that what’s happening when you use this device on your head if one of, or both of, these:

PEMF can switch microglia cells from pro to anti-inflammatory state in vitro (PubMed publication). Microglia are fascinating multifunctional cells in the brain that drive its immune system. Lots of info out there on them. I believe their pro-inflammatory state is responsible for many chronic diseases. This state can be activated by viral or bacterial invasion, the presence of viral proteins, viral or bacterial parts among other things. For instance, Lyme bacterial “parts” have been found present in microglial cells of infected individuals. Likely the cyst of the bacteria is difficult to digest when phagocytosed by the microglial cell. Seems this presence would activate the immune response. There are no in vivo studies of microglia yet. It’s not possible to study in vivo. As for long COVID, it’s likely that either residual virus, viral proteins, or integration of some part of the viral genome into your human cells – causing them to produce the viral protein and then be recognized by the CNS immune system, which would activate an immune response, is the source of long COVID. These cells with integrated viral genetic sequence divide as all cells do and during division they can eliminate the foreign DNA or possiblly methylate it out of transcription, eventually eliminating the problem. So it may be that PEMF’s positive results with chronic disease that has an autoimmune or immune source, comes from switching these microglial cell from pro to anti-inflammatory phase. If that’s the case, the “cure” is likely to be relatively short lived as eventually your microglial cells will recognize the “intruder” (if still present) and switch back to the pro-inflammatory state.

Secondly PEMF on the head is likely stimulating the vagus nerve. But stimulating is a vague (no pun intended) word. When you are sick, your vagus nerve is “stimulated” to send out the “sickness signal” this is what is responsible for the flue-like body pains that accompany the flu and many chronic diseases. So let’s be more specific than “stimulation” when we can be. Google “locus coeruleus vagus nerve acetylcholine receptors” you can read about how the system works. I believe the PEMF is somehow “realigning” or “straightening out” that system. It’s not likely to “fix” a genetic issue but I believe it can correct an issue that has arisen from infection and age. I think of PEMF as “redirecting the cells to do what they are supposed to do” These chronic diseases seem to come on around 50 years old. My theory is that the 4 fold increase in monoamine oxidase activity that happens as we get older has something to do with it. MAO breaks down serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline, melatonin, and a few others. It’s mainly active inside the cell. Its activity goes up as we age. Likely from increased transcription. COMT breaks down dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline and is more active in the synapsis. There are mutations in both genes that cause over activity. Likely resulting in ADHD (which is linked to CFS) there is also an STR in the promotor of MAO that changes its transcription efficiency, complicating the picture. MAO is on the X chromosome so men only have one copy. It’s my belief that one copy of the over expressed allele is enough to drive chronic disease. That explains why these problems are 50% more common in women than men. Females have two copies so they are 50% more likely to get a “bad” allele. (Sorry for the divergence there) So I believe PEMF on the head is stopping the “sickness signal” sent out through the vagus nerve. This system is the same system responsible for fight or flight. If you think about the specific symptoms of many of these chronic diseases they sound like the opposite of fight or flight. I won’t go into specifics but I can trace things like leg cramps for instance. Fight or flight increases blood flow to the muscles. The opposite is reduced blood flow which can cause cramps. When my legs cramp I hit my head with the PEMF and in about 10 minutes the cramps are completely gone. Nothing else works for me. Not hydration, salt, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and creatine -they help but only PEMF always works. So for fatigue, what’s the opposite of fight or flight? Fatigue, right?