Flux Health Forum

How about people studying the electromagnetic microenvironments of growing babies and healing bones and other healing changes

Hi,

Has anyone looked at studying the electromagnetic microenvironment for signals that are common among normal growth and instances of healing? If the PEMF process relies on signals that trick the body into a healing mode perhaps something could be found in the healing mode activity itself? I know there are people out there concerned about the fields that affect us and that’s its own thing but perhaps the act of healing actually has an EM signature which could then be sources of patterns. I mean when healing happens by PEMF the bones and cartiledge and bodily fluids dont just go nuts and grow every direction (that’s called cancer) - instead the healing proceeds along patterns of what the body is supposed to be like - exactly like what babies do and happens with healing activity (when that happens.) So people with broken arms and etc and infants and so on could be vital sources of patterns of what EM fields are going on. I suppose many do this but I’ll flag @Bob.

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This brings to mind bio resonance therapy (Bicom). I’ve recently been on the search for someone in the US that offers treatment, but I can only find therapists that work on pets here because of the lack of FDA approval. In Europe, it’s a very popular therapy for humans.

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Electrophysiology is a huge field, and there are easily tens of thousands of scientific papers or more. This field ranges from studies of electrocution to nerve impulses, to single charge voltage-gated channels in cell membranes. This has been done with plants and animals and protozoans and even rocks. Many very smart people have worked on it for longer than a century. But that does not mean that we know everything about it, nor does it mean that we even know the most important things about the effects of electric fields on cells.

I spent about 20 years studying the ~ 1000 scientific papers and related documents in the field of PEMF. I also did work in electrophysiology when I was working on my dissertation, so I have a basic familiarity with it. I can tell you for sure: the scientific field of PEMF is tiny compared to the scientific field of electrophysiology.

I would say that is it essentially impossible for one person in one lifetime to get a good thorough understanding of the entire field of electrophysiology in life systems, broadly defined. To really understand anything this vast and complex would take a genius more than a lifetime. And that is just the time required to master the known facts, and does not include the additional decades it would take to really develop the skills to contribute to knowledge in the field. And federal research funding is only for very targeted scientific hypotheses in mainstream areas, not a general search for patterns. So, basically, you need a wealthy genius with a lot of time on their hands.

Right -but if you have a system that people wear for hrs at a time to introduce EM fields, how hard would it be to have a very similar system watch/measure in close range and record data and then collect that data(now that part would not be a similar system i guess - collecting data.) I’m sure it’s a whole new device and servers and signal processing, but out of it might come the signal patterns hoped for. You already have usb ports on things. Maybe that’s just an impossibly larger thing than I imagine.

It would be like building a space ship: easy to imagine, very difficult to actually do.

ok.

I found this https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijbm/2018/8935750/ but again prescribing signals but not measuring them in existing healing/growing tissue.

Saw this broad review of the issue in diverse settings so yes there’s a lot out there but not easy to jump into.

I had a further thought though drifting from the idea of purely measuring to see what’s there. I wondered about the sources of EM fields in people, the naturally occurring ones, and their patterns and sources.

The main components seemed to be the nervous system itself and the muscular system locally or regionally or where the two overlapped more or less. Of the nervous system we might think of the brain but the brain is far removed from the body and somewhat speaking less connected to the body in general - think of the EM field in the knee or foot that would result from the EM activity of the brain (vs say the entrainment discussion where certainly the brain is its own source of the most EM field at least at first order but see next.) The heart seems to be the most commented on source of the strongest EM fields of the body on average at least. And the brain while it has waves of activity actually the strongest waves cause mis-behaviors of the organ (thinking of epilepsy here.) So maybe the pattern of heart activity is a key source of EM field activity relative to the body - and a pulse rate of various levels associated with various kinds of activity and rest and in the low hertz range and of a signal shape that isn’t regular sinusoidal or square waves. There is the double beat of the heart but also there is heart rate variability that is considered a good sign of health (that is to say an overly steady heart rate is a sign of disease.) So maybe a signal rate in the range of heart beats and of a shape of the double beat of the heart, one beat stronger than the other, and with healthy heart rate variability would be a good source of the pattern of signals to consider. There is a third active major component of the nervous system - the digestive system. People have called it a second brain. While the heart is a powerhouse of EM activity the stomach and intestines have strong patterns of engagement and nave been credited with the overall neural activity on par with a cat or dog and this system is much closer to the mass of the body - and also far more variable it seems to me. There is when one is initially digesting vs later phases of things moving through the intestines with contractions. Maybe some patterns there are useful to consider if less mentioned? I mean a sign for the body to begin growing and healing might be when the digestive system is signaling the availability of nutrients. So heart rate and details there of, and the activity of the digestive system are ideas to consider.

Then i had the though that a pulse meter might be something that could pick up signals of heart rate activity and could be a source of signal. Maybe PEMF in sync with the heart rate would matter. Or not. Maybe the heart rate and pattern of a healthy/healing person would be a good source of a signal. Or whatever it is that the digestive signals could be (stomach activity for one phase and intestinal activity for another phase on the scale of hrs.)

The other side of my thinking, on the muscular side, would be of the patterns of walking or jogging and the EM activity of those. Again in the low hertz rate but probably with shapes of activity and release. Maybe those would be an interesting source of signals - just to tell the body there is activity and perhaps arrange resources and activity as if one were active. Kind of like taking a vitamin d3 pill instead of being outdoors for hours doing things.

But this is all speculation. Just thinking outloud.

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This topic seemed like a reasonable place to add the study done at Cleveland Clinic to the discussion https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S8756328220305494?fbclid=IwY2xjawFh6HRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHV0F_65S5yybQ8lyrleNd0muiC7BJ11P6sKGig2GOctabFbr_ODUJLB_kA_aem_ZLqb5b9LgMTMaU5mXviMzQ#:~:text=Herein%2C%20the%20novel%20findings%20from,resorption%20while%20stimulating%20bone%20formation

Also this is an IEEE published work cited in the above study discussing the effects on bone caused by the mechanical forces acting on bone “diamagnetic interactions between (hydroxyapatite) and the applied fieldl”

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7373660?fbclid=IwY2xjawFh7XhleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHV0F_65S5yybQ8lyrleNd0muiC7BJ11P6sKGig2GOctabFbr_ODUJLB_kA_aem_ZLqb5b9LgMTMaU5mXviMzQ