EMF protection

Zen-gineer · May 31, 2019, 3:14pm

I know not all EMF’s are created equal. What I’m curious about, is if there is, for example the NO/ONOO pathway activation by dirty electricity, can that be changed to the healing G-Kinase pathway by putting the PEMF device on, even when you are in a place with a lot of dirty electricity?

(I live in a place with terrible dirty electricity, and it effects my sleep a huge amount, less after I turned off the power in my room. But its an apartment complex with electricity still running through 3 walls of my room regardless.)

Sitings:
Scolarly article with a chart of different studies and effects:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jcmm.12088
Personal Medium Post with collection of EMF effects, and mechanisms of action:

Bob · May 23, 2019, 1:08pm

I doubt it. You basically get wave superposition, and because the phase information for the “dirty” electricity is unknown, it would be impossible to simply cancel it (or part of it), regardless of the other claims you will hear all over the web. There are many technical reasons that PEMF can not shield you or change harmful EMI into beneficial EMI. They may make claims, but I have measured it, I have calculated it, and it simply does not work that way.

You might be tempted to ask: “well, what about noise-canceling headphones?”

My answer: if you take the time to understand how those really work, then somewhere along that journey the light bulb will go on and you’ll say to yourself, "gee, that’s why it can’t work that way for EMI and PEMF.

What about the benefits people feel when using PEMF in a dirty EMI environment?

Those sensations are probably real. It could be that the beneficial effects of PEMF are more apparent than the more subtle deleterious effects of EMI, or it may be that PEMF out-competes EMI at the physiological level, perhaps for a signalling pathway, overpowering the negative effects with more positive effects. But as far as I know, this is very poorly understood scientifically, and any discussion of this effect would be entirely speculative.

prometheus · May 25, 2019, 1:09pm

https://www.earthinginstitute.net/what-is-earthing/

Shielding against Low Frequency Electromagnetic Fields (Faraday Cage Effect)

When the body and the Earth’s surface come in contact, their potential equalizes. Since the Earth’s surface is the most negatively charged of the 2 conductors, electrons are transferred from the Earth’s surface to the body. Maintaining the contact between the 2 conductors results in a constant exchange of low frequency electromagnetic fields and electrons that prevent external electromagnetic field to penetrate the body (this is especially true for external low frequency electromagnetic fields, i.e. less than 100,000 Hz) thus maintaining the internal electrical condition of the body into a homeostatic electrical state stabilizing our body’s internal electrical environment. This is the Faraday cage effect.

"When you are grounded (Earthing), you become like a Faraday cage and the Faraday cage effect prevents EMFs generated by the electric wires of your home from penetrating your body. A Faraday cage is a metal enclosure used to block electromagnetic fields, like the one shown in this picture.

Multiple Earthing studies have been conducted in indoor settings filled with a large spectrum of common EMF frequencies. These studies have consistently produced beneficial results"

Bob · May 25, 2019, 4:02pm

Earthing is an entirely different thing than the interaction of PEMF with EMI, which is entirely different than Faraday shielding.

prometheus · May 26, 2019, 5:22pm

Then may I ask if you have considered the wide body of literature and scientific research available including maybe your own, and if so what is your scientific opinion on the value and limitations of Earthing by itself or as an adjunct to ICES? thanks

Bob · May 26, 2019, 5:52pm

My opinions:

Faraday cage - known to exclude RF energy. I have used, tested, and validated several while doing research in the defense and automotive and biomedical instrumentation industries, and while doing high-sensitivity physiological research. This is a real thing, with a real physical basis. You can easily find thousands of papers involving Faraday cages because they are a vital tool for engineering and scientific research. Whether or not Faraday cages have value for human health is another matter. It depends entirely on the RFI severity of the environment you are dealing with.

Earthing - I know a lot less about earthing, but I have several close colleagues who I respect who tell me that earthing is an effective tool for health. I believe them, based solely on my respect for their knowledge.
Depending on how you use it, it may be a useful adjunct for ICES or PEMF in general, but I would say, a few scattered papers notwithstanding, that remains largely unstudied, speculative, and unknown.

Zen-gineer · June 6, 2019, 11:42pm

Okay actually I’ve thought a little about this and I wanted to ask / clarify my thoughts.

Is the healing propery actually because of the G-kinase pathway activation? (As seen from Martin Pall’s articles) Or is it from some other property? G-kinase I am assuming is intercellular, and I saw you write somewhere else that you suspect that the benefit comes from some intra-cellular voltage communications.
Also, I know that frequencies are very hard to cancel out unless you have control of both frequency sources, BUT that doesn’t necessarily mean that the effects of EMF’s can’t be cancelled out, or over powered. Just from the simple fact that when we are in an EM-field, we are still able to function, at least mostly well. That means that our internal signals are still getting through. So is this because our internal communication is louder or more consistent than the external emf? And if this is the case, I can imagine that whatever signal the EM-field is giving our body, through INTERcellular voltage gated calcium channel activation, is perhaps at least POSSIBLE that we can give our bodies a louder, clearer or “____”-er signal that tells the cells to do something else.

Okay so when there is an EMF, there is some kind of activation, be it the NO/ONOO pathway or whatever other pathway, is there possibly a way to steer that activation towards something positive, when you have no choice but to be in an EMF heavy place?

If you’ll allow a few frustrated words:
: The em-fields in my home right now are 1.5mG - 3.5mG consistently. And dirty, with no ground. It’s really messing with my sleep and I’ve seen my body age DRAMATICALLY since I’ve been here . It’s the new asbestos and should be illegal for landlords to profit from.

Bob · June 8, 2019, 1:38pm

Unfortunately, this is all pretty much unknown so far as I know. You have to be really careful about taking a single paper or a few papers from one person or one laboratory too seriously. As a rule, most scientists specialize in just measuring a few things. So, when they test a hypothesis or ask a question such as “Does substance or stimulus X have an impact on physiologic system Y?”, the answer is usually YES. If you happen to be a hammer, then the entire world looks like it is made of nails.

When you see the phrase “… is implicated in…” in a scientific paper, it means only that they really do not know what is going on, but they can show statistically that some things happen when other things are done (or not done).

Generally, as soon as I start to read statements like “X is implicated in Y…”, then I set the paper down and look elsewhere for information. Unfortunately, in some fields of cell science, this constitutes over 90% of the published literature.

Honestly, trying in vain for years to untangle the biochemistry of all of this is not likely to help you, If you are in a toxic environment, I would direct my energy toward fixing or leaving that environment.

Trying to cancel or over-power an electro-magnetic signal is not likely to work in my opinion. The electromagnetic fields are likely, as I have said many times before, to simply superimpose. Their combined effects may be very different from their individual effects. This area is viewed as fringe science by the mainstream, and is very poorly explored scientifically. So far as I know, there are not any good answers.

Other people, just talking or trying to sell you an expensive product, may encourage you or even claim that these things work. But I do not think this really works.

As a scientist, I can absolutely assure you that it is easier to move to another apartment than it is to untangle an entire field of poorly described biophysics, than it is to find practical, affordable, safe, technological solutions that themselves do not introduce additional unforeseen problems.

JonN · July 11, 2019, 11:17pm

Zen-gineer,

Are you familiar with the work of Dr. Martin Pall, PhD.? A rough outline (emphasize rough, this is from memory) of what he says is:
It’s been known since the 70’s how EMF causes biophysical harm. This includes EMF from ELF all the way to millimeter wavelenght 5G. It results in pretty much all health problems from auto immune to cardio vascular to dementia to etc. etc. There have been many studies on this since it was discovered in the 70’s that the effects of EMF are blocked by calcium channel blockers. We are told by the telecom industry that their EMF levels are too low to have an effect, but the voltage sensors for the voltage gated calcium channels are so sensitive they result in a 7.2 million times more effect from the same voltage as the surrounding aqueous solution in the rest of the body. This causes the calcium channel to allow calcium into the cell, which is typically 1/10,000 the extracellular calcium level. Over time, extra cellular calcium drops and the body pulls it from bones, etc. to make it up. Inside the cell the calcium signaling molecules and regulating molecules don’t properly do their jobs. Calcium channel blockers would create more problems then they help, but might an understanding of the mechanism of EMF damage enable a targeted search for a remedy?
/Jon