Flux Health Forum

Best device for microcirculation and cell metabolism ME/CFS

General Health and Self-Hacking
#1

Quite new to the pemf world, but I have been biohacking for quite a few years and have been able to go from severe to mild/moderate ME/CFS with the help of supplements, HRV biofeedback and LLLT. Now I am hoping pemf can help me further.

Some of my main problems (I believe) based on current research/hypothesis are microcirculation, systemic low grade inflammation, low parasympathetic activity and cell metabolism.

I have gathered that most experts in the field recommend low intensity devices, but there are so many contradictions on what actually works so I am hoping to get some help, please.

I find @Bob to appear genuine and definitely one of the more credible sources on the matter. However, I get the impression that ices are mostly for localized treatment areas? Or does it build systemically in the body?

I see Bryant Meyers suggest both a mat and then spot treatment of the affected area. Do you @Bob agree with that? Or would one of the ices devices be suffient? If so, which device would better suit my needs?

And finally, should I decide to get a mat which would you recommend? Having already spent tens of thousands of dollars on treatment, I’m not very eager to spend loads more on something super expensive that may or may not work. Meyers strongly warns against mats such as healthyline and also omipad. Instead he recommends Vasindux. Does anyone have any experience with these as they are more affordable options? Meyers being an affiliate makes me unsure about his credibility…

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#2

Systemic? well… does acupuncture only have an effect on the points where you place needles, or is the human body a vast interconnected network of systems, flows of energy and matter, with interlocking and layered signals and feedback loops? :confused:

It will depend on your specific concerns, your individual sensitivity to PEMF, and how and where you use focal PEMF whether the effects are local or more systemic. And there is no step-by-step one-size-fits-all solution, unfortunately. But advice from users on this forum will generally point you in the right direction to get started.

I generally agree with Bryant (please do not apply absolutes to that statement).

Also, when asked, most clinicians who have tried both mats and focal PEMF treatments tell me that the clinical outcome is best if both are used; mat once or twice weekly + focal daily seems to have the best outcomes.

I don’t have much of an opinion on any of the mats, mostly for technical reasons.

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#3

Thank you for answering🙏

And I do see your point. And I suppose that is the reason we all trust you more than the ones who have adament opinions. Wishful thinking as it might be, it would be great though, having a simple clear cut answer.

I will look for more anecdotes when it comes to mats then. Hopefully other forum members will weigh in with their experiencesđź‘Ť

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#4

Have you tried sauna (160F)? I use Relax Sauna. See my other posts on ICES PEMF - it’s my number one tool - absolutely remarkable what it can do.

#5

Meyers does raise some good points but up to some time ago he was promoting a different product, where he was one of the bigger sellers in the US. Also while everything Meyers tells, there are holes in what he tells. That what he tells is, in my opinion, aimed to the features of the devices he sells or gets provisions on. I figured that out over the years after reading his book, lots of things on his (old) pages and did some more research. Nevertheless, he is one of the much more scientific and precise persons in the PEMF space, whereby all the tech stuff and details he tells obfuscates, that we know quite little.

If you wish a “full body mat” in regard to treat magically a complex of interdependent issues that are summarized in a diagnosis that one one understands the cause of (e.g. ME/CFS in my opinion) it tempting to want a full body mat. But no one understands really why PEMF works.

So make a wise choice and look if the company you are interested in is open, transparent, has a valid address and at least exposes the name of the owner and/or CEO on their web site and also some tech details, manuals, etc. about their products. Look on Alibaba if you find the product there for 10% of the EU/US retail price. You will believe how much garbage is i the market, even from companies that are 20 years in the space and promote their “patented” sinus-wave-forms, that are quite in-effective. Ask a lot of questions and see how the company responds if they sell a Product that costs 2500$ or much more.

Best,
Hans

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#6

Thank you for the advice!

I have tried a portable IR sauna, but it didn’tquite work for me. Normally I love saunas and the hotter the better. After falling ill with ME and POTS I unfortunately also developed heat intolerance and orthostatic intolerance. I am considering buying a sauna blanket hoping that it will work better lying down. One of the reasons I like the idea of healthyline is that they also provide FIR in their mats.

I have read quite a few of your posts already, and you make a very strong case for getting the ices👌 I don’t quite recall, though, if you have mentioned benefits in the areas I mentioned?

#7

Hi Hans,

And thank you for good advice.
I dont necessarily need a mat just because it’s a mat. I get that the coils would be just as local as the ices, only more of them.

I did find most of the crystal mat/pemf companies on alibaba already, which is pretty much why I even consider them. I wouldn’t buy them for retail price. I have seen lots of bad reviews for mats such as higherdose etc, but many seem to find more value in the mats from healthyline/medicrystal. They have the same supplier. I suppose my question is if all chinese mats are basically the same or whether to believe the superiority of that one supplier. Another thing I like about the chinese mats is the FIR. So am looking to buy one anyway just for that. There’s not much of a difference adding pemf technology in one of those mats anyway, but obviously I wouldn’t want that if it is harmful in anyway like Meyers implies. Medicrystal seems to be a lot more upfront about their products than healthyline.

Omi seems like a reasonably priced version of the Bemer mat and one that I can mostly find good reviews of.

The Vasindux I have only seen mentioned by Meyers and by someone here on the forum (I don’t recall the name). Would love for others who have tried this mat to give their opinion.

Then of course there is ICES which I already decided to buy. But seeing as both Meyers and clinicians tend to recommend both I’d like to try a mat as well.

May I ask what pemf technology you yourself use, and have you seen any results in terms of general wellness or mostly localized treatment areas?

#8

Be aware that some china products use sine waves and put the dirty electricity of the 110 / 230V system into the generated wave forms. FIR can be generated in various forms. You need to have carbon fiber technology which is free of “bad” EMF as far I could measure it, optimal using a good regulated DC power source without the dirty electricity on top of it. When you click on my Logo (avatar) you can see, what I own, since I do not want to advertise or discuss other products here in this forum.

Regarding one device you mentioned (B…), I know that it uses a “patented” sinus wave which is (or seems to be) very effect-less (see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29709070/). Sure there are other studies that find effects using that device but then employees of that company are co-autors.

The oly PEMF devices I know which have really impressive and reproducible effects on different persons are the ICES devices. That does not mean, that others don’t, but then you have to find it out the “hard” way by paying and trying.

Best,
Hans

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#9

I suffer From POTS and ME, chronic fatigue, etc. Popular Whole body mats did nothing for me. I have tried IMRS, Bemer, and Healthyline. The only one that made a difference for me that I could correlate some systemic improvement was with Pulse Centers which also helped with nerve repair for a Mortons Neuroma when used with Colloidal Platinum. For whatever reason, Micropulse did not cut the mustard there. I find Micropulse PEMF helps me with inflammation, wound care, dental nerve repair/Trigeminal and orthopedic issues mostly. And as a sidenote, I would say that for brain issues, Ozone therapy seems to make a big difference in recovering my brain, fog, anxiety, and feeling more myself/ less ill. Progress is slow, but remarkable when I look back to where I was five years ago.

#10

This sounds like very sensible advice for people in general, thanks @hcf

#11

Thanks for sharing your experiences. What ozone therapy are you doing (ear insufflation, rectal insufflation, IV ozone, etc?).

#12

iMRS for example does nothing with the ICES coil tester. Magnetic Flux-density-change-rate (in Tesla/second) seems to be low. iMRS seems to relax and put someone easily into sleep, especially when using FIR - but I can’t report anything exceptional about it as with ICES.

Best,
Hans

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#13

Mostly Vag. insufflations and Ozone saunas. I have done all the methods you mention, but these 2 (and rectal) provide the most systemic treatment I found. I’m sure clinical 10-pass is excellent, but I believe we can achieve the same results over time with the above methods. I also brush teeth with Ozonated Olive oil, and occasional drinking ozone water. I have injected it also for specific wound, dental, and other issues. And I treat sinus’ for colds & flus.

#14

I’ve tried ozonated oil suppository… you have to be careful with how strong you make those haha. herx for reals with that!

have done strong ozonated water, but no problems for me drinking lots of that, fortunately

#15

Nrf2 induction. Ozone causes oxidative stress with a “punch”. The body reacts in upregulating the detox-enzymes and systems. But this can be done only in cyles. After max. 10 days of upregulation you have to take a break otherwise there is a counter-regulation because that prolonged exposure acts more than a chroic poison.

best,
Hans

#16

yes…i have only done it twice about a year apart and definitely less potent the second time after learning from the first time