Flux Health Forum

Coil placement

PEMF Basics
#67

That’s actually a very good question. The magnetic field definitely does twist around when you have 3 or more coils placed in close proximity but on non-parallel axes. The math for modeling that would be too complex to analyze without using a very advanced magnetic modeling tool (I do not have one), and it would be very sensitive to small changes in coil placement (sort of like chaos theory).

But then again, we can not accurately model unstable flames or turbulent water flow, but candles and water faucets work just fine in the practical world.

So, I would say that although it would be essentially impossible to model the magnetic field distribution in 4 dimensions (3-space volume + time since the magnetism is dynamic), it certainly could work. I think it is worth experimenting with.

#68

I find it hard to find much information on using 2X2 coil arrays, especially with an A9. Would placing two 2X2 coil arrays (plugged in to 2 A9’s) on both sides of a leg calf swollen and painful from cellulitis be effective?

#69

yes that would still work. how effective may vary. you can set on max power setting or also try stacking and setting to M…
go for 1h minimum is what i have found sufficient time to notice things working. even sleeping with them in over night is really good.

cellulitis is no fun…i have done bleach bath soaks to help with lowering risk of further spread of infection: https://www.aaaai.org/tools-for-the-public/conditions-library/allergies/bleach-bath-recipe-for-skin-conditions i have easily used a full cup to a tub of bath water, but you can start with what they recommend.

i have never tried using pemf for cellulitis as i have been able to reduce risk thru bleach baths when i did feel infection coming.

#70

Have you tried ozone instead of bleach? Based on the early studies of viral inactivation kinetics from the 1970’s, I would estimate ozone to be about 10 times more effective than bleach. This testing was for viruses, but seems to be the case for bacteria and fungus as well. The reason the deactivation kinetics of ozone has to be estimated (and perhaps why ozone never really caught on in general use) was that during the testing in the 1970’s, it was so fast at inactivating virus that they could not initially measure it to compare it against bleach and ammonia (et al.), so a statistical comparison could not be made, so, because it was too good, ozone was left out of the scientific comparisons.

This is just another example of the serious of the misuse of statistics in scientific research.

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#71

i have for spot treatment and experimenting…i have a cheapy ozone generator that puts out 10g/h so it ozonates water for cleaning produce quickly and effectively, but there’s no dial to throttle (finely adjust) ozone output. I’ve been able to expose based on time and proximity, so that has helped.

I’ve had adverse effects when I use too much, and I haven’t found the optimal exposure time for the machine I’m using, so it’s been convenient to just go to the bleach bath soak when needed and w/o having to think. if I expose skin too long or too frequently to ozone gas, about (at LEAST 3hrs later) 5-8hrs later my skin reacts w/itchiness, redness, and inflammation… it appears (my hypothesis) that my skin reacts to the die off of the area I’m treating (?) and gets red, inflamed and itchy for the next 5 days… and/or maybe I’m just killing my top layer and it dries and flakes off a week or so later. perhaps it’s the latter.

an alternative test might be to expose healthy skin to same amount of time i get bad reaction just to see if i get the same results…

this is what i have: https://www.a2zozone.com/collections/mp-series/products/mp3000-ozone-generator (but i upgraded it to a 10g/h cell by getting the parts on ebay)

#72

Hmmm, the AtoZ ozone generators I have (and the one at your link), do have adjustable outputs, so you should be able to control ozone production rate. I find it easiest though just to control the amount of time I run the generator.

One thing to keep in mind is that, unless you are feeding the ozone generator with (nearly) pure oxygen, it will produce a lot of noxious compounds other than and in addition to ozone. The better quality ozone generators have inlet tubing fittings precisely so that you can feed oxygen-enriched gas to get mostly ozone with minimal extra compounds.

I am thinking that it might be these extra compounds that are causing your reactions, maybe not the ozone itself.

Anti-microbial effects of ozone happen at remarkably low ozone concentrations, around 10 - 20 ppm. I found this to be quickly achievable even with fairly small ozone generators. I have been known to use a plastic bag and rubber bands to loosely cover a hand or foot (even my head… yes, kids, please do not try this at home) and just add ozone from a generator through 1/4" tubing into the bag. I just add ozone for a few seconds, not nearly a minute.

Of course, being a geek/nerd I have a couple ozone sensors, so I have roughly calibrated a few of my ozone generators to achieve about 20 ppm ozone into partially-filled bags of various sizes. This is how I calibrated the ozone box design I published in JoSaM.

#73

it did cross my mind the compounds from ambient air may be the cause of my rash like reaction. if the air is roughly 21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen and the rest “other,” then it’s the oxidized non-oxygen (is that nitrogen oxide? + other gases) gases that may be causing my reaction.

I’ve never explored connecting an o2 tank to my o3 generator, but may look into that just to see what kind of reaction I get using pure o2.

also, I’m glad you have played w/ozone generator, etc… searching on the web, I couldn’t find exactly how to convert the measure of g/h to ppm for ozone… can you give the formula to how to figure that out?

and yes, I just adjusted time to control my exposure since I didn’t know how much was being throttled just by the dial on the machine.

ALSO, ozone in a plastic bag… did you use some special bag that is resistant to ozne like teflon? I’ve considered bagging my ozone for exposure to body parts, but stopped bc I only had ziploc bags on hand and didn’t want to create more toxic compounds in using ozone.

if only I had the patience to learn the skills to calibrate and tweak my ozone machine. I always stop for fear of breaking something and having to spend more $ on things. haha

#74

Its probably the nitrogen compounds, that would be my guess.
Conversion of ozone g/h to ppm: sorry, can’t help there, two reasons: (1) I don’t know it, and (2) it would only work for g/h of pure or nearly pure ozone, not mixed with a huge amount of “other” from atmospheric compounds.
Plastic bag: any clear bag should work. I don’t use anything special.

#75

The man whom introduced me to PEMF has successfully healed Cellulitis many times— using Pulse Centers high power, however. He combines with Colloidal Platinum and does 90 min sessions 2-3x’s/week.
This has been a very effective treatment for me as well. Treated a Morton’s neuroma nerve bundle on the bottom of my foot after trying everything for 9 months, including my C-4 with shockwave therapy, etc. It was resolved with this protocol in 3 treatments which I understand to be quite the miracle.

#77

I’ve been fortunate to get a good handle on any cellulitis risk… bleach bath alone is a quick/cheap and effective/simple solution fortunately :+1:t4:

#78

Very interesting, I’m currently dealing with this and my usual go to of a9 all night stacked coils on max along with disinfectant foot bath during the day isn’t doing it. That and I just finished two week course of amoxicillin for gum surgery I thought would knock it out. I’d love some more detail if you could spare the time. Thank you for your awesome contribution to the forum.

#79

hi @choban55, I was going to recommend this on your thread when you had mentioned using pemf for your foot to keep the infection under control. I didn’t mention bc this natural, simple, effective treatment isn’t commonly recommended in mainstream health. I have mentioned this before in the past in other circles and it was met with a lot of skepticism and resistance. Since what you were doing was working for you, I left it alone.

Anyway, this idea was recommended to me by my immunologist doctor (of all people, a mainstream healthcare doctor)! To his credit, he loves research and is always participating in clinical trials, so he’s more open to ideas/things that actually help/work than what the pharma industry recommends via taking some drug.

Knowing the common cause of skin/foot infection was helpful to confirm effectiveness of using bleach (aka: chlorine - same as used in swimming pools).
https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2008/0701/p71.html states that the common bacteria that cause foot infection are:
“staph” bacteria - Staphylococcus aureus
“strep” bacteria - beta-hemolytic streptococci

and for cellulitis (skin infection or foot) in severe cases:
“mrsa” bacteria - methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus

cut to the chase, in my own experience, i have reduced signs and risk of infection compared to never soaking in bleach bath (dilution). I have used this successfully for my dad’s foot as he has reduced feeling in his foot due to a stroke some 20+ years ago, so his foot has been prone to toe fungus if not regularly checked or protected.

here’s a guideline you can follow:
https://dermnetnz.org/topics/bleach-baths-in-patients-with-skin-infections in a nutshell 1/2 cup to a a bathtub… how does that translate to actual 1 gallon tub to soak your foot? You can work the numbers backwards for now… I can follow up on this later when I have more time.

i have found 2 conflicting studies on effectiveness of bleach baths:
2008 study:
stating:

Blockquote
After five minutes in bleach at 2.5 mcL/mL, a high degree of killing was demonstrated for all 10
CA-MRSA isolates, resulting in a greater than three-log reduction in surviving organisms
compared with the control strain incubated in municipal tap water alone, according to the
researchers.

source: https://www.djj.state.fl.us/content/download/22313/file/hypochlorite-solutions-helpful-managing-ca-mrsa.pdf

and then a 2019 study:
summarized: In a 15min solution of 0.005% bleach solution at 37C (98.6F) showed no significant impact on staph colony. Even exposures to 0%-0.01% dilution for above parameters did not yield any change. A minimum of 0.03% dilution is needed to have impact - a concentration that is toxic to human cells (skin)
source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7183041/

while I do not know what bacteria/pathogens I’ve killed using a bleach bath soak, I do know that it has helped me avoid cellulitis after using as needed.

@Bob these seem like similar studies… i understand time exposure can affect results and both are within a 15min timeframe easily… any thoughts on these conflicting studies?

that said, it certainly has worked for me and my dad! :slight_smile:

On a separate note and better (safer alternative), you might want to consider working w/HOCL … doing a hypochlorous soak seems to be even more effective. I’m gonna check this out for myself in the near future. gotta go for now… but reaching for that household bleach to dilute in water to soak in a foot tub is a quick experiment you can do now… just figure out the proper dilution!

post more later!

#80

Well… conflicting academic studies come as no surprise to me. Few studies have the methodological details to enable exact duplication. The difference might have come down to a dilution measurement error (not uncommon) or simply in differences in rinsing, the effect of differences in the experimental surfaces, etc.

#81

btw, i should add that contact time is very important in the effectiveness of bleach bath soak. some sites that promote the soak state 10-30mins. I started with 15mins, then 30… I have also played with strength of concentration and have found too strong is too drying (you’ll find what level is right for you). I have easily done 45-60mins without any issues. For my dad, I have him soak for 20mins, then use a soft bristle brush to remove any dead skin and continue soaking for another 25mins before finishing off. I have had dead skin around an infected wound and during the soak would carefully, gently debride the area without any force. FOR ME it helped the healing of that infected area. it basically wiped off after soaking for 30mins. after the soak, if it’s sensitive, i’d use a bandaid to protect the area - sometimes adding neosporin under the bandaid.

I’ve never tried checking the ph of the water, but will check that out to compare after trying out hocl for a soak - where hocl is at a much lower ph … seems like a less toxic approach to killing infection. here’s some more info on it from a study done: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7315945/

#82

I wonder if you ever tried to test an A B comparison:

Using whichever identical 2 seperate pairs of coils to see it’s benefit for any given application on the body (anything that you already know it works for you) using the following A B comparison.

Experiment #1
Using 2 sets of coils plugged in to 2 ports of the C5

VS
Experiment #2
Using same 2 pairs of coils but each set is plugged in to 1 of the 2 A9 units

The difference being that
Using the C5 the 2 sets are perfectly in sync

it’s impossible to be perfectly in sync using 2 seperate A9 units

Similarly
What if someone had 2 sets of C5
The 2 c5’s couldn’t be perfectly in sinc to each other

Would it beneficial for biological purposes, of both C5 were using all of their combined maximum number of coils on the same body at the same time

For example
1 C5 can only handle 2 of the Deep Field coils

What if someone wanted to use 4 deep field coils by using 2 C5 units then not all deep field coils can possibly be in sync.

Would there still be a biological benefit to the body even while receiving multiple simultaneous out of sync pulses. Or would it not have an added beneficial effect or perhaps even be counterproductive?

#83

People talk about their observations on the effects of stacking, multiple units, and different things like that all the time on this forum.

#84

Hi Bob, others, …possibly silly question but wanted to clarify. Stacking 2 coils is supposed to be bumpy to bumpy side. You mentioned that bumpy to smooth would cancel each other out magnetically. What about smooth to smooth? Funny I tried that in error today on Omni 8 (I have a P9) and thought I felt a deeper penetration than bumpy to bumpy. I corrected it to the “prescribed” way and it seemed to feel less magnetic. Was it all in my head? (I was placing in the CV-17 and CV-18 areas, center of my chest.) Thanks

#85

Hi Avi, That’s actually a very interesting question. Based on my initial design intent, there is a specific way that the coils should be stacked to get the best magnetic flux alignment. However, you are not the first person to point out this sensation to me, and I know of several people who have stacked the coils the way you are describing (smooth-to-smooth) and have had excellent beneficial effects, even though I think (by calculation and measurement) that the fields should cancel. But in truth, magnetism is more complex than that, so my thinking is that you should be confident in using the coils in any way that you feel is giving you the best benefit. I think there is a lot of truth in your observation, but it is difficult to explain based on our simple understanding of bio-magnetics.

#86

Science is not about “trusting an expert”.
That is “faith” rather than science.

Anyone who wants to know the truth, of what exactly does or doesn’t increase depth of penetration (depending on which way you stack the coils) can easily (instead of “trusting” an “expert”, instead, simply just try and observe the depth of penetration distance by visually noticing the change in distance on the PEMF tester with is supplied with even ICES PEMF unit.

It’s an easily observable and objective and everyone can see it for themselves.

Blind trust is not science.
Rather that, is more like “faith”.

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#88

things get complicated when you start applying real life use such as putting things between the coils and the area you want to reach… how do you measure depth of penetration with bone or muscle or fat etc etc… you can no longer just observe or rely on your 5 senses at that point. you would need tools to help measure such things. and sure, blindly relying on an expert isn’t much use unless that expert is equipped and skilled with building and using such tools to measure the depth you want to observe a pemf device can reach